elk meat lost?

[Doug Treat]

Hey guys, A traditional archer friend of mine stopped in tonight and showed me the meat he got back from his cow elk.  He took it field-dressed but unskinned to a local butcher.  He got about 120# of meat, most of which was ground with some fat added.  Only about 40# of that was steaks and roasts.  We both shot elk the same day (Sept. 14)and we were together.  He shot the HUGE lead cow and I shot the calf that was with her.  This cow was the biggest I have ever seen (and I've shot 7 elk- 4 of them were big cows).  The 2 of us could not drag this cow after she was field dressed.  We had to pull one side and then switch to the other to even move her at all.  I think she weighed between 600 and 700# on the hoof!  I think the butcher cheated him out of some meat.  He was also supposed to get 10# of brats that he didn't get.  When he questioned the butcher about the small quantity, he said that he had to "trim off spoiled meat 3 times" because he (my friend) had not taken care of it and that we had "torn the backstrap dragging it".  We only moved it 5 feet onto a cart.  We got it out of the field at midnight and he took it to the butcher the next morning after leaving it overnight in his trailer.  It was about 35-40 degrees that night so there's no way it could have spoiled.  When he took it in, the butcher told him that it was a huge cow and that he should get about 200# of meat but today, when he picked it up, the butcher said it was an average cow and the meat he got was just about right.  He also told him that he didn't have a scale, so he wasn't sure exactly how much meat was there (a butcher without a scale???????). I think he may have switched up a smaller elk for his or just took a lot of nice steaks home.  Is there anything you guys can think of that he could do to get his meat?  This is exactly why I butcher my own.

[insttech1]

Yeah I'd be going back as well, but not as TB described it.

I would try--legally--to obtain the meat.

That "butcher" is full of it!  And that's why I process my own as well, or take it to a REALLY well known guy with a great reputation for game processing.  (But I've done all of my own and many friends' for the last 6 years, and bought a grinder last year for another $100 on sale.)

I would also insist (in the future, it's too late now) that ALL my meat comes back from MY animal.  (The only exception to that is if the butcher is making a large run of sausage; then I might make an exception.)

A buddy of mine got hosed out in Colorado with a $180 fee to skin/debone a mulie, and then another $380 back in Michigan to get it cut and wrapped, with about 25lbs of sausage made up.

OUCH!!!

You almost need a signed receipt with the quality of the animal at delivery, and the delivered weight.

Take Care,
Marc

[Doug Treat]

Yeah, I don't know how much he can do now, but I think he'll at least try to get his 10# of brats that he was supposed to.  This is a small town butcher that may get a bit of bad press from this, at least to everyone I know...and I know a lot of hunters in the area.

[StanM]

Doug,

First of all, I don't think I'd follow Tradbow's advice.  An assault charge will not get your friend his meat back, though it might secure three squares a day for him for the next 5 to 12 years.

I shot a big Roosevelt cow elk a couple of years ago and recieved over 300 pounds of meat back from a butcher, if memory serves.  I know that Roosie's are typically a little larger in body size than Rocky Mountain elk, but not that much bigger.  

Simply telling the butcher that you and no one you have a chance to talk to will ever support this business again is unfortunately probably your friends best bet to get some resolution.  Sorry to hear about that.

Stan

[HornHunter]

Doug a 600 to 700 # cow would be abnormally big,
not saying the butcher didnt help himself, but typical yeild for a cow is between 120 -150 lbs of wrapped meat

I also cut my own just because i dont like the way butchers handel the meat and cwd is a real concearn

DIY is the best way

[Charlie Lamb]

No way to tell for sure if you were cheated. Often we don't get back as much as we "think" we should.

Learn to do your own and you'll be ahead of the game. It ain't that hard to do.

If you must use a processor, bone the meat first to eliminate waste and make sure it's weighed and recorded before you leave it.

[Killdeer]

The last time I had a deer processed was in 1993. I took him to a reputable butcher in Greenbank, WV, to be cut up, wrapped and stored frozen. When my hunt was over and I went to pick up the meat, I got a small box back. I put it in the trunk, and picked at it morosely. Then I went back in and asked where the back end was. It was in the freezer, an honest mistake, it seems. It happens.

I then bought a book and learned how to do the job myself, boning instead of sawing, and the meat has gotten a whole lot better. It is convenient to hand the whole mess to someone else, and then go back to retrieve it just like supermarket groceries. I don't feel as connected that way, though, and am always bothered by that niggling little doubt about what got saved and what got left on the bones.

The butchering done in camp is a celebration. There are scraps of backstraps, either eaten raw or roasted over the fire. Inedible bits go to the fire, and turn to a fragrant smoke as the fat sizzles. I feed the spirits in that place. The bones are walked into the woods away from camp for the birds and other scavengers to pick, and so that they can return from whence they came. The dog, if there, will expectantly wait for her scraps, too, and hone her game of catch. The meat is then wrapped and labeled, save the parts that will become camp fare. I only have ice in the coolers and the weather to keep the meat properly cooled, so I finagle this until I can send it home with my husband on the weekend.

It is a lot of work, and the time must be allotted to it instead of heading straight back out after another critter, but it is worth it to me.
Killdeer

[Bonebuster]

If you don`t kill it, gut it, and cut it yourself there is no telling what you are getting.

Problem is you guys DID take good care of the meat and he KNEW it.

The best and worst advertising is the word of mouth. Give him the opportunity to come clean, if he is not telling the truth you will know. Then tell him that you WILL tell the truth, to everyone you know.

Unfortunately, in this MODERN world, the right thing to do is not always legal, and the legal thing is not always right. Assault with a weapon
is a felony, and you can`t do that. Too bad.

I would add that you should NEVER allow any of the meat from your animal to be mixed with that from other hunters for sausage or any other reason. That being said, it means that you will probably be doing it yourself, because most commercial processors trim meat from all the animals being done into a large pile, and try to divide it equally at the end of the process.

Your friends meat is gone. The butcher will probably never own up to it. Not all butchers are bad of course, but the last deer I took in and had processed, was the last deer I will ever have done for me. It was not fit to feed a dog with.

[ksbowman]

I have cut up everything I have shot since the early 90's also.My dogs eagerly wait when I hang a deer in the barn or shop and catch every scrap thrown to them.I don't want my meat mixed with anyone else's because I've seen how some will drag it around in the back of a pickup to show all day with no ice or refrigeration in 70 and 80 degree weather with the hide on and no clean out inside after field dressing and spilling contents.Then thier comment is venison tastes gamey and the don't care for it.  Ben

[R.W.]

Like Mr. Lamb stated, you MUST get a weight slip from the processor, or you will have NO idea what you may expect to recieve back.

Have a word with the t*rd, and let him know that you will be informing everyone you know about his "business." (forget the bat thing, the penalties ain't worth it) You could also raise a compliant with the relevant game management authorites, and local health authorities (the entities that inspect food handling places) In western Canada, I believe that the processor MUST supply a weigh slip, when recieving game animals, along with taking the particulars of the person who has harvested said animal.

I have, when in doubt, asked to be called when my animal was to be processed. Some people get a little perturbed at this request, but if they are on the up and up, what are they getting upset about?

Having worked hard to harvest my animal, I ain't disposed to having a crooked processor help themselves to the best cuts of my animal.

Hopefully, you can get this group to clean up their act, at the very least. Informing all your friends and acquaintences about your suspicions, will at least put people on their guard, and put the dude in a tight spot, if he/she is shorting clients on their meat.

Best of luck.

[Bjorn]

A butcher without a scale is like a barber without scissors. Amazing scenario. Only deal with someone you know or comes highly recommended by someone you trust.

[Olebow]

Yup, if he has no scale he is fly by night.  
probably dirty as well!!!

I would appreciate knowing who & where this clown
is so my pals & I don't make the same mistake!
Olebow

[snapper1d]

The same thing happened to me here with a hog.It took my brother and I to get a hog in the back of my truck that we had already cleaned.I had to help the butchers son load it onto a card.When I got the call to come and get my meat it was in a small box that I carried out under one arm.Duh!!! We DID HAVE WORDS!!! I still didnt get my meat but he never cashed my check.I think he decided not to cash it since he had been caught.I dont think I was the only one either that had that problem.It wasnt long and he was out of business.

[Blackhawk]

First of all, 6-700 is really big for a cow and what you might expect from a bull. Anyway, let me play advocate for the butcher:

Let's say it was 600#, but the skinning, gutting, head and feet off drops the weight to about half...or 300#.  If he deboned and trimmed that, you will lose another 40% or so. Now you are down to about 175#.  If the cow was actually around 450-500, then 120# is in the ball park.

I agree with those who stated many hunters are surprised at the "small" amount of meat returned.  When you do your own, you will get an idea of what I mean.

[Shawn Leonard]

My bud just shot a 700# bull in Colorado about 3 weeks ago. He had plenty of time and boned out all the meat, he took as much as possible including neck meat and got well over 200#s and that was after buthering and trimming away fat and such. Shawn

[Smilingg]

How can you tear a backstrap by dragging the animal?

And even if you did "tear" it (whatever that means) why would the meat be bad? It is not like the meat would be bloodshot from a center-fire rifle bullet...

[Shawn Leonard]

I never shot an Elk, but I know a big bucks back loins can weigh 8#s(average 4-6#s) each, so a 700# Elks must weigh at least 15-20#s each, that is 30-40#s right there. Shawn

[Doug Treat]

Thanks for the replies guys.  It sounds like my friend is just going to chalk it up as an expensive education.  For those of you who said that 700# would be a large cow...I know...It was huge.  I have shot some large cow elk and this was the biggest I've seen by maybe 100#.  The thing is, the butcher agreed and said it was a huge cow.  Now, I butcher my own and usually get 130# or so off a normal-sized cow.  I don't mix in any fat like the butcher does and I'm not too stingy with the coyotes, not taking the meat between the ribs or any meat off the neck.  Even if I guessed high and his cow was 600#, he should have at least got 150-175# of meat back.  I thought the "you tore the back strap" line was great though.  Again, thanks for the replies from you guys and lesson learned.

[Pete W]

http://ces.uwyo.edu/PUBS/B594R.pdf

Good information on yields of boneless for Elk.

Pete

[Blackhat]

Some of the processors around here are notorious about shorting the customer.  Or what you take in is not what you get back.  They charge a small fortune and still short you meat.  I started processing my own since.