accuracy question.. honesty please

[medic77]

How accurate is everybody when they started hunting big game animals.  
I undertook this great love, selling all other gear, and jumped in with both feet.  I was fascinated from the first time I saw a guy flinging some wood arrows.  My ride has been up and down to say the least riding the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.
The latest of the lowest of lows was just yesterday when I released an arrow on a beautiful buck at 15yds, perfect broadside, calm and hit the spot that I was looking at but yet that's where the good time ended.  I knew in my heart it was a quick and clean kill.  After 200 yds of great blood trail and 6hrs of searching later, no go and no deer.  This is the second buck in two seasons that I felt my shot was perfect and no deer.  I have shot does with no problems and most fall within sight.

I guess my question is... I have never shot with another traditional archer, EVER.  I am starting to question what is accurate for me.  
When I first started out I was a three under guy and had some success but felt I wasn't improving to what I thought I should be.  I am now several years more experienced and shooting split seems to be very accurate at targets but deer hunting is giving me the shakes.  Does three under seem to help anybody in hunting situations that they have found?  Is it really just buck fever?  Is there a training exercise that helps me pick a spot better.  
I'm really not trying to complain or be a oh-woe-is - me guy.  I'm just searching for a little guidance.  I switched to a tab this year to really set my anchor better.  Thanks for all the help in advance as this site is the reason I have come this far.

[CoachBGriff]

I don't have a ton of experience, but there are two things that have helped me.  

1) I practice out of a deer stand regularly.  I also practice kneeling and sitting on a short stool as these are all the ways I am most likely to encounter shots.

2) I'm sure you've heard "pick a spot" just like I had, but it took a couple of shots at animals for me to actually be conscious of picking a spot.  Once I was fully aware of picking an actual spot on living creatures, my accuracy has gone up.

I've still made mistakes though.

[freedomhunter]

Hey brother,  I look at it this way.  You have to start hunting sometime.  Sorry to hear about the loss of the deer thought, I believe that feeling can get anyone down.  I had a few of those with my compound when I first started.  

I can put arrows on 3D kill zone at 15 yards consistently but at 20 I start to get flyers so I have told myself that my limit is 15 yards.  I have yet to loose an arrow with my new trad equipment but if my opportunity does not open up for deer this year I will certainly be small game hunting, it can only help your accuracy.  

I was shooting today maybe 100 so arrows and just started getting frustrated with myself watching my groups just turn into flyers.  Fatigue and focus was just killing me so it was time to turn in.  I know this much I have a compound sitting in the case and it has not been shot for 2 years now.  I really love shooting trad.  You will get another opportunity and eventually get that buck.  I would just be happy to see a deer this year, lol.

[Bow Bum]

This is the same situation which keeps me from completely switching over from wheels.

I feel you pain.

Good luck!

[Jock Whisky]

Medic where exactly did you hit the deer? What kind of penetration did you get?

If you hit where you were looking at it sounds like accuracy is not your problem.

[Tsalt]

Man, that is heartbreaking.  I wish you could get a dog on the trail of that buck.  Your arrow hit where you were looking and you had good blood for 200 yards... that deer is dead!  
Sounds like your a good shot to me... don't let the apparent bad luck get you down!

[medic77]

Man, I just reread my post and I sound pathetic.  Pretty sure I need to put on my big boy pants.
  I have been super lucky to have seen the animals and hunts I've gotten to go on in my short 9yr hunting career.  I'm only 35 so I need to get this straightened out.  The thing that hurt the most was a couple compound friends giving me hell (all in good fun) about me making the last couple shots if I had a compound.  Arrow straight to the heart (unless I'm shooting of coarse)

[The Night Stalker]

Good advice above. I have been shooting 38 yrs. and I remember missing the first few deer due to shooting at the whole deer. One was a monster that my hunting partner shot with a compound. After that first year, we built a shooting platform and would practice for hours several times a week. We would throw  golf balls on the ground a different yardages. It will get to where you just do not remember the shot at first. I would just remember the arrow going through the deer. We did not have any teaching resources, no internet, etc. We learned by ourselves and we learned some bad habits along the way. It would be a good to get you a shooting partner or film yourself. It would be nice to find the deer to see exactly what happened with your shot sequence

[Stump73]

You dont think someone else found your deer do ya?

[medic77]

The only thing I can think of on the arrow placement is I hit below the lungs/liver.  I stayed of the shoulder 3-4 inches (which has been a nemesis) and aimed lower third because I have had issues with deer jumping the string. The arrow was a pass thru but not complete.  I saw the broadhead out the other side as he turned.  Bright red blood that I feel is muscle.  
 All of these things are live and learn type moments and each situation has taught me great lessons.
The only other puzzling thing to me is I have only had one complete pass thru on the very first deer I have ever shot.  Every other animal, hogs, javelina and deer has held my arrow.  Some just the shot for sure but others like yesterday....?

[njloco]

This happens with firearms also, don't let it get you down, you did the best you could to find it, that's all you can be expected to do.

Good luck, we know you can do it.

[greg fields]

Your  exact situation is what made me go back to the compound for hunting, after 25 years of strictly recurve hunting...  I'm also feeling your pain.

[Fisher Cat]

Medic,

For me this is not an achievement based sport.  I think we are all accurate enough to hunt, but we have to be mature and disciplined to honestly limit our range accordingly and pass on shots that we are not confident about.  

Time spent on shootable animals helps train us to remain calm.  On the other hand, when it become too routine, the fun diminishes.  

I believe its more about time in the woods than time on the range.  That's exactly why I haven't killed anything lately.  Get out there and be patient.  Everything will come together in time.  Good luck - John

[Benjy]

If you hit were you wanted then something else is going on.

My sweet spot is 18 steps, right at 15 yards. I have been videoing a few hunts this year, it is amazing when I look back at the video and see what really happened is not quite what I thought happened. The deer are not as broadsided as I thought and they also tend to move before the arrow gets there.

Benjy

[DanielB89]

Medic77,
I can tell you that everyone makes bad shots, everyone screws up perfect scenarios, and everyone has the same frustration as you.  

MY advice would be to shoot at a blank target.  No dots and try to hit where your looking.  When shooting at a target, it is a lot easier to "pick a spot" but when there isn't a spot it can be a little tricky.  


I hope this helps, another great FUN way to practice is to get out and "stump shoot".  Just pick a patch of grass and shoot it.

[Jock Whisky]

Medic it doesn't sound pathetic, just an honest search for advice.

Bottom third is a good location. I'm not sure what you mean by "I stayed of the shoulder 3-4 inches... ". Did you mean 3 or 4 inches behind the shoulder?

I've found an excellent location to shoot for is the middle of the crease at the shoulder. It will usually get you both lungs from the ground or the tree stand.

What broadhead were you shooting? Do your arrows fly straight is is there some instability (fishtailing, porpoising) in their flight?
How heavy is your bow? Your arrows? There are a lot of factors to consider.


Again if you hit what you were looking at, accuracy ain't an issue.

[Orion]

Sounds like this shot was a brisket shot, i.e., too low.  If that's where you were truly aiming, need to raise it up a bit.  

Shooting a stickbow isn't as precise as shooting a compound.  No letoff, sights or trigger to make the job easier.  Simply need to get close (closer) with a stick bow, and shoot within your limits. Not having all those crutches to rely on also increases tension/doubt in the moment of truth. We all get buck fever to some extent.  The key is to learn to still function while under its influence.  Hunting small game and making some kills is a good way to gain the confidence to kill big game.

Three under or split really doesn't make a difference.  Just have to master whichever style you use.  

Re pass throughs. You do get a better blood trail if the arrow passes through, but it doesn't have to pass through the deer to kill it.  I shoot most of my deer at a slight quartering away angle, and the arrow often lodges in the off side leg.

Keep in mind, too, that a lot of folks embellish their shooting results.  I sure read about a lot more pass throughs than I see from others.

[medic77]

Jock, my setup is a 60@26 anything I have with a 29.5 Easton FMJ 340 that has 100gr brass insert and 200gr VPA's.  They bare shaft really solid but on the stiff side.  I'll take it as far as that goes.
Orion, I agree as that is the only thing it could be.  I did pick a spot a bit lower than normal and this deer didn't drop as expected.  My mistake I guess.  
I do stay off the shoulder or back a couple inches just to be on the safe side.  That may have to change as well.
I'm sure if I had video of the event I would be seeing a different story.

Thanks again to everyone for listening as just discussing it helps.

[Diamond Paul]

I'm sorry you didn't find your buck, that really sucks, but you are not the first, trust me.  If I had to guess, I'd say you hit the high "dead spot," right over the lungs but under the spine.  Good blood, think you'll find him around the next bush, then the blood gets less and less, and then no more.  It looks like a good lung hit to the eye, but if you aim center and they crouch at all, you'll hit them too high.  An old-timer told me when I first started bowhunting to aim low, lower than you can really believe you should, because deer almost always hear the bow, and crouch, at least a little.  It happens too fast for you to even be aware of it most of the time, but I've dropped a bunch of them with spine shots aiming center.  The more severe the angle (high tree stand), the worse this gets.  Target accuracy is good, no doubt, but it means very little when shooting at game, other than to prove you can actually shoot.  Nerves are the problem on animals.  I was a great target shot, but I've missed, flat out choked, on a bunch of deer.  I get nervous, I admit it.  It's the closeness of the encounter that gets me, and most people.  You are so keyed up, thinking if you make the slightest noise, or move at the wrong time, you will blow it, and this often causes you to forget the fundamentals when you finally are able to draw the bow.  You just dump it, don't pick a spot, etc.  With a rifle, the distance gives you a relaxation factor that you don't have with a bow; that's why it's more fun, but that's also why you blow it.  You have to slow down and execute the fundamentals; if the deer busts you, so be it.  It's better than wounding one.  There is no one who can help you with this.  Some people are naturally impervious to nerves and knock them off like flies.  I'm not one of those people, so I feel your pain.  Good luck, and don't give up.  Shooting a lot of does helps you to get over the hump, if you can do that.

[Sixby]

A sharp broadhead placed accurately will kill just as quickly shot from a recurve or longbow as it will shot from a compound. The arrow head kills by cutting.
Honestly it sounds to me like you made a good shot and killed your buck but did not track him down. Tracking skill and patience retrieves a lot more game than following an obvious blood trail to the end does. When you lost good blood then you lost the animal.
I would venture that when you ran out of blood you did random searching.
Hint from me would be to mark the last blood with tape or tp , carefully look for scuff marks in general direction of travel and tiny spots of blood. find something, mark it and go on from there until you find something else. Unraveling a hard trail requires looking under leaves ect that the animal brushes against. The blood will be on the underside and not seen until you turn the branches over.
Question , HOw long did you wait until you started the trail? I never start a trail faster than hour after the hit and then on a marginal hit depending on where the hit is up to four hours.
It is possible that you may have moved the buck after he had gone down if you took the trail too early.
My whole point is that when you hit an animal as hard as you hit that one it probably did not go all that far before laying down.
I believe that you got a good look at the hit because you saw the head sticking out of the far side. That would give you an elevation on the arrow. You had bright red  blood,. How much,. Bub bles in it? bright red is usually arterial or lungs. Did it spray out., Puddles, More info.

God bless, Steve