Shooting Does During the Rut

[DDawg]

My wife's family has a nice farm in N. GA that I have exclusive hunting rights to, that has great deer potential.  
In the past few years the farm has been primarily commercial agriculture with a deer overpopulation problem.  We were asked to thin out the herd.
So the past few years myself and my friend and his son have worked on that.
Well now my father in law is retired from farming, and we are gearing the farm more towards hunting and QDM.  I have also decided that I want to move towards traditional archery .
The problem is my friend and his son still want to indiscriminately take does for meat with their rifles. (up to legal limits of course).
The Rut is here in N. Ga and this past weekend my daughter and I  saw some chasing.  We'll we watched a nice doe pass with a few yearlings, hoping to see a buck following a long later. A few minutes later..BAM.. My friend who is in a stand not far away blasts the doe.  
Well I hurt his feelings some when I reminded him that he is a guest on our property, and we want to hunt decent bucks.

However I did allow him and his son to hunt some does with his crossbow.  What do y'all think the impact of hunting does during the rut will be?

Thanks

[Whip]

If you have an overpopulation problem one of the biggest principals behind QDM is to manage the doe herd to bring the buck/doe ratio into balance.  Is your ratio still out of balance?  Does the population still need reducing?  If so, then I wouldn't worry about them shooting some does.  At least when they do that they aren't likely to shoot the buck that you are hoping to take!

[Kevin Dill]

EXACTLY what Whip just stated. Shooting does during the rut will not stop the rut and it will not send the bucks packing to another county. If anything, a slightly reduced doe population will only result in enhanced buck competition and activity during the rut. You might well expect to see more unattached nice bucks cruising for does, as opposed to a high population of does locking up all the mature bucks for 3 weeks.

[DDawg]

We have taken many does over the past few years, and I believe the population should be in Check.

[DDawg]

Just to reiterate, We Have already thinned out the doe population.
My big concern is the impact of putting ANY hunting pressure on Does during the Rut.

Thanks

[ChuckC]

One of the problems with any question like this is actual good information.  Really.  Shooting a bunch of does over the last several years does not of itself mean the system is in check and the numbers are good.  If you are going to lean on premises such as QDM, then you need to KNOW the numbers.

If you KNOW the numbers and the goal, then you will already have your answers and your reasons.

It is hard for someone to judge a property by walking on it a few days a month and even harder to judge from afar.

That said. . .  the rut is gonna happen.  You won't stop it.  You may cause activity to go nocturnal, but the hormones drive the rut and they can be overpowering.
ChuckC

[Brad Arnett]

I get what you are saying and I personally do my doe killing pre-rut. To me the does are bait during the rut and I don't shoot them then. To each their own

[KentuckyTJ]

I think you messed up letting him hunt too close to you first off. Also guests must abide to the rules of the landowner. Did you tell him not to shoot a doe? Have to be very clear on your QDMA intentions with guests. If you told him not to shoot that deer then don't invite him back.

I have been through this time and time again. The worst of which was years ago I went to our farm to find a friend that I had let hunt one day was back with his two buddies (that I didn't even know).

Believe me you have to be crystal clear with all your rules or they will be bent or broken.

To answer your question I do what Brad does. If I am buck hunting I don't shoot them during the rut as they are bait. The other night I had a mature doe come under my stand. Hot on her heels was a 160" 10 pointer. They past and ended up coming through the same spot under me 20 minutes later.

[woodchucker]

Ok... Going out on a limb here, and probly piss some folks off. Sorry!

Mother Nature, Makes Big Mature Bucks. Period! You can try to farm them, with QDM or whatever. What you will get, is big stupid bucks! Go to an actual deer farm,or "Nature Preserve" & see for yourself. Bottom line is, Big Bucks, get that way for a reason. They learn to survive!!! Years ago,here in the North East, very limited(if any) doe shooting & a 3" single spike buck rule. Anyone who killed a buck, usualy shot a legal yearling. The bucks that made it through they're 1st year,smartened up REAL FAST!!! After 2-3 years... he was a hard Buck to kill!!! His #1 downfall? Looking for does in heat. As long as you had Doe in heat around,you had a natural buck lure. He would come looking... You just had 2 do your best to make sure you were in the right place,at the right time, to kill him. If you did... You EARNED your bragging rights!!!!!

QDM, IMHO... Is nothing more than "deer farming" and mandatory antler restrictions, just make it easy for people to shoot big racked,stupid bucks. If "Quality" Bucks, is no more than a large rack to you,and you're happy with that,fine. Just because he's wearing a big hat, does not mean he's "mature",and it certainly doesn't mean that he's SMART!!!!!

As for the shooting of Does... I would not allow any doe shooting, untill after the rut. You will have the most natural "Buck Lure" around during the rut to attract the bucks,and you can shoot your "meat deer" after the Rut.

Just one Old Fart's Oppinion.....

[tracker12]

Originally posted by Brad Arnett:
I get what you are saying and I personally do my doe killing pre-rut. To me the does are bait during the rut and I don't shoot them then. To each their own

X2  Doe in heat is the best bait out there.

[DDawg]

Originally posted by woodchucker:

As for the shooting of Does... I would not allow any doe shooting, untill after the rut. You will have the most natural "Buck Lure" around during the rut to attract the bucks,and you can shoot your "meat deer" after the Rut.

Just one Old Fart's Oppinion.....

I think this is my feelings too.  

But as QDM goes, I just use that as a general term.  My QDM is gonna be common sense:  Let little bucks walk so they can become big bucks. There is a time to shoot does and a time not to shoot does,   Learn to take does when its time to shoot does.

Also here in GA it is buck only for the majority of December with the exception that you can take does all season with archery.  I am gonna start working on some spot and stalk.  I also told my friend that if he needs meat, get a bow and learn how to use it.    

[KyStickbow]

I dont shoot does during the rut....I try to knock the does out in the early season so I'm not pressured to shoot one when I shouldnt be shootin em. Been burnt to many times shootin does in the middle of November.

[Wannabe1]

You have a unique situation at your farm. I'm not faced with something like that here. My tag is for 1 deer only and that means buck, doe or fawn. I am trying to get my first ever so, I am taking what I can if it's offered to me. I will obviously make a judgment call on the size of the fawn though.  

[Blaino]

Originally posted by woodchucker:
As for the shooting of Does... I would not allow any doe shooting, untill after the rut. You will have the most natural "Buck Lure" around during the rut to attract the bucks,and you can shoot your "meat deer" after the Rut.

I dissagree, for the reason that most of the does have been breed. Taking a doe after the rut is over is like taking 2 or even 3 deer from the herd if she has twins. Whos to say one of her offsprings won't turn to be a massave/smart buck. Your "meat deer" should be taken during the early season. To each their own....

[ChuckC]

I myself don't cotton to the deal about being bred,  Until the twins are there, they ain't there.  She is taking up space all year.  Eating all year.  Taking her yesterday or taking her tomorrow makes little difference if in fact you are in the market to take the doe.

Up north, where winter kill is a real possibility, taking any deer earlier in the fall likely helps the rest of the herd as less feed is consumed.

That same thinking can be pushed and pushed, which is why we had the doe issue in the first place. .  they make more deer, don't shoot does ever because. . . whose to say. .
CHuckC

[Kevin Dill]

I understand the ideology of does being bait, and used to apply it that way. It would irritate me to think of someone popping a big mature doe during the rut...but no longer and never again. I watched my local deer herd swell in size and does become numerous. The more does we had around, the more difficult it became to find an unattached mature buck. I always had my best and biggest buck years when the doe population was relatively low (where I hunted) and the bucks moved hard in their search for the next 'Miss Smelright'. I would never tell anyone they are wrong, but for my hunting the fewer does around, the hotter the competition for them.

[mwosborn]

Originally posted by Blaino:

I dissagree, for the reason that most of the does have been breed. Taking a doe after the rut is over is like taking 2 or even 3 deer from the herd if she has twins. Whos to say one of her offsprings won't turn to be a massave/smart buck. Your "meat deer" should be taken during the early season. To each their own.... [/b][/QUOTE]

It makes no difference if you shoot her before or after she is bred - either way she had the potential to produce offspring.  Killing her before or after she is bred is still like killing 2 or 3 deer from the herd.  That is why killing does reduces the herd more so than killing bucks.  If the herd needs reduced than shoot some does - early in season or late in season it makes no difference other than the impact they have on the available food supply.

Personally I don't shoot them early because it is usually too hot and I prefer to let them hang.  I also have more time in late December and love late season hunting.  i do not shoot them during the rut as many already describe as "buck attractants".

[Knawbone]

Originally posted by woodchucker:
Ok... Going out on a limb here, and probly piss some folks off. Sorry!

Mother Nature, Makes Big Mature Bucks. Period! You can try to farm them, with QDM or whatever. What you will get, is big stupid bucks! Go to an actual deer farm,or "Nature Preserve" & see for yourself. Bottom line is, Big Bucks, get that way for a reason. They learn to survive!!! Years ago,here in the North East, very limited(if any) doe shooting & a 3" single spike buck rule. Anyone who killed a buck, usualy shot a legal
yearling. The bucks that made it through they're 1st year,smartened up REAL FAST!!! After 2-3 years... he was a hard Buck to kill!!! His #1 downfall? Looking for does in heat. As long as you had Doe in heat around,you had a natural buck lure. He would come looking... You just had 2 do your best to make sure you were in the right place,at the right time, to kill him. If you did... You EARNED your bragging rights!!!!!

QDM, IMHO... Is nothing more than "deer farming" and mandatory antler restrictions, just make it easy for people to shoot big racked,stupid bucks. If "Quality" Bucks, is no more than a large rack to you,and you're happy with that,fine. Just because he's wearing a big hat, does not mean he's "mature",and it certainly doesn't mean that he's SMART!!!!!

As for the shooting of Does... I would not allow any doe shooting, untill after the rut. You will have the most natural "Buck Lure" around during the rut to attract the bucks,and you can shoot your "meat deer" after the Rut.

Just one Old Fart's Oppinion.....

Well said Chuck, X2

[Cootling]

The key question may be, depending on the answer, is "How large is the property?"

[Michael Arnette]

One thing I've also learned is that relationships are worth much more than bone. I'd rather take out a buck too soon or pressure deer slightly too much then ruin a relationship. Relationships are what makes hunting great.
That being said, I don't think Gun shots really bother deer much. I think it's hunting movement that is a lot more troublesome, something that may be more of an issue with a crossbow than a rifle.