Black Widow Recurves - educate me

[Rando]

Hey all,
Due to ongoing shoulder issues I am going to have to further reduce draw weight and hand-shock/vibration so I will be moving from lighter (mass) longbows back to a recurve... my goal is to have something very stable and efficient with lighter draw weights.
That said, I will soon be (gulp) selling several bows to fund my next-generation bow with the hopes I'll be able to use it the rest of my shooting & hunting days. I am strongly considering a Widow and would appreciate feedback, from those who know 'em, on the different models. I am most interested in recommendations between the short risers vs longer risers, longer limbs vs short limbs, small vs large sight window, etc.
I am still debating one piece vs take-down, so any comparisons there are appreciated as well.
Again, the goal is to have a very stable bow that performs well. I will take comfort & performance over convenience - in other words I don't want to give up something in a bow just so I can shoot it in a blind a few times per year.
Looking for valid personal experiences with the different Widow recurves to inspire my choice.
Thanks in advance for your responses!
Rando

[KAZ]

I love Black Widow bows and they are all solid, sweet shooters... That being said, it sure would help if you narrowed down some of your preferences to focus the advice. One piece versus takedown, lighter weight versus heavier... Which one are you drawn to? That's a start... I love my KB & love the PTF for one piece, the PA is sweet too but more mass. I love the PCH for takedown, but the PSA to me is the all time middle of the road standard takedown you can't go wrong with. I'm not stoked about the long riser PMA but it shoots great like a target bow. Personally, the PSR is my least favorite model. Happy to go into more detail as this thread grows...

[kat]

Looking into a widow seems like a sound choice.
I have owned PMAs, PSAs, and PCHs.
I currently hunt with a PCH. It has the smallest riser, and sight window. For me, the sight window is not an issue. I went with the 60" model, because I like the longer limbs vs. shorter riser.
IMO- this gives me a smooth draw, and is easy on the shoulders. I like the weight of the riser, and the stability it offers. I have also owned a PTF, one piece model. The one piece might be a bit smoother.
Hope this helps.

[bicster]

I own a PLV longbow with the Talon takedown system and the SAV recurve (predecessor of the PSA). These bows are solid and are great performers. The SAV is my go to bow when I am struggling with form or confidence. The reason I mentioned the PL longbow is because it has a lot of mass weight with almost no hand shock. I would recommend trying a couple first if possible.

[Caughtandhobble]

I am sure that you're aware that Black Widow has a try before you buy program. I highly suggest that you take full advantage of the program, sounds like the program was designed for you.

You mentioned that you have been shooting longbows, their PSR is a recurve that has a longbow grip. The PSR is the lightest overall weight of their recurves. The PSR sure makes an easy transition from longbow to recurve.

The one piece recurves are also fairly light weight, the three piece takedown recurves are heavy in total weight. The overall weight is a very personal thing. The PMA, PSA and then the PCH are all great choices if you like heavy overall weight bows. The PMA is the heaviest due to the longer riser, then the PSA, with the PCH having the smallest riser.

I personally think that you are making a great choice going with Black Widow. My go to bow is a Black Widow PLX with a solid black glass riser. The solid glass adds mass to the bow which I like. My backup bow is a two piece PLX with same exact specs as my other PLX.

The guys at Black Widow are first class, along with being very knowledgeable. Good luck and enjoy your new bow!!!

Ben

[DennyK]

Give Roger a call, tell him what you expect and see what he recommends, great bows.

[Dave Lay]

one thing to remember since you are shooting longbows is thier PL longbow has as much mass weight as some recurves, that said, i have had several PA's as well as PL's but by far my favorite is a PSA, its rock solid in your hand and has a very good mass weight, like others have said i dont care for the longer MA riser at my 27" draw i shoot a 60" PSA and have found it my perfect hunting bow, stable, quiet and very forgiving... and like all widows seem to be, bombproof
     i have a new to me silvertip that im trying hard to like, but im almost to the point where I  put it away or sell it and grab my old PSA again they are great bows

[beendare]

There is good reason these bows have held their popularity for so many decades...and also held their value.

A test drive is the way to go....what I like might not be what you like.....

[Friend]

Have personally owned the PSA and PCH….both are excellent bows.

Black Widow is well recognized for their longtime excellent guidance and superb customer service care.

Of course, they would prefer to sell you one of their bows, however they will openly redirect you otherwise, if they believe your expectations will not either be met and/or exceeded.

My faith resides with the Black Widow group in effectively addressing your inquiry.

[JamesKerr]

I haven't shot a model of their bows that I didn't like! It would be helpful as said above if we knew a little more about what you are looking for. My two favorite recurves they make are the PSA and the PCH. I prefer the takedowns over the one piece bows simply for the ease of transportation. If you like longbows though like me the PL is awesome! I've got a PLX takedown that I'm absolutely in love with. Plus if any of their standard grips don't fit you just right, they offer a custom grip option for like 75 dollars I think is the price. On top of all that, Roger, Toby, and John are all super friendly and helpful!

[STICKBENDER98]

When I was getting ready to order my widow, I went to the Trad bow show here in Kalamazoo and shot A BUNCH of bows, mostly the take downs since thats what I wanted.  I ended up with a PCH, which has the short riser, I shot it the best and most consistent of the three take down models.  Like KAT I went with a 60" bow, and it is very smooth.  If you can use the test drive program from them and shoot a lot to figure out what you want, give them a call and talk to them too, tell them what you're thinking an wanting to do, they're a great bunch of guy and always willing to help.  Good luck with your adventure.

[McDave]

I like the PSA for the same reasons you state in your initial post.  The three piece is heavier than the one piece, giving you more stability.  The PSA has longer limbs than the PMA for a given bow length, giving you a smoother draw.  There is virtually no handshock.  I've never felt I needed a larger sight window than the PSA has, because I never plan to mount sights on the bow.  Also, for the same reasons you state, I have always bought a longer bow rather than a shorter bow.  Maybe not the longest one possible, but if I were choosing between a 62" bow and a 60" bow, I would lean toward the 62" bow as being smoother and more stable.

[Bowwild]

I've owned PCH, PSA and PA.  The PA (one piece) is my favorite. I'd go for 58-60".

[Rando]

I am impressed and appreciative of the very informative responses. I am leaning towards the PCH model as it still seems to have sufficient weight to be very solid and I don't believe the smaller sight window will hinder me at all as I've been shooting longbows for quite some years.
I am glad of all the very POSITIVE thoughts on Widows - I've always appreciated them and feel confident they are a heck-of-a-bow!
I may also give the "try it" program a shot, will look further into it soon. My goal is to sell a bow and start budgeting a Widow by the end of the year.
Thanks all,
Rando

[R. W. Mackey]

I have probably owned a dozen over the years, I don't shoot
Long bows so all my experience is with the Curve. I have mostly shot the PA series both take down and 1 piece, great bows, tried a PSR but just don't care for the long bow type riser. I recently found a used KB, a little heavy poundage but a good price so got it. It is a very nice bow, I liked it so much I ordered a new one in my draw weight. I also own a PCH, 60"
And it is probably my go to bow as an all around shooter. Love the mass weight, zero hand shock, fairly fast, and unlike a lot of people saw, I can get it very quiet. I have a 29.5" draw and like the longer limbs with the shorter riser, smooth as they come.
  You won't be disappointed with anyone of their bows, but if your looking for less hand shock get a takedown with the Phenolic wedges, the extra mass weight is what you want.
  Good luck,
RW

[LongStick64]

They are very well made bows but I have found the risers to be on the heavy side. If you are having shoulder problems, holding a heavy riser may not be the best thing for you.

[Stump73]

I have shot the pch for a while. Very excellent bow. They are Fast and have a very smooth draw.

[Mo0se]

We have a PMA 64" with light limbs, It has a long riser and long limbs. The bow performs solid and consistent every time we shoot it. It's made well enough to be a lifetime bow without negligence from the owner. It feels as solid in the hand as any bow I've shot, and much more stable than most. When you pick it up it has a well made feel. The shot is completely vibration free.

I can't find any fault with the bow, it's performance is top notch, even at a low draw weight. 32@28 with 9.5 gpp gets 184 fps. More than enough for most any target uses. I guess it depends on what you plan to do with your bow? Hunt? 3D? The longer limbs will feel smoother, but you never mentioned your draw length? That will be the determining factor in optimizing a bow just for you.

I have shot a PAX that was 60" and I have a 29.5 draw, I found no stack. I think you'd be hard pressed to find better people to deal with. They are indeed a solid choice. If ours were stolen, I'd replace them exactly as they were. The difference in construction, with the PAX being a one piece bow, and shorter length felt remarkably similar to the feel of the PMA.

That's a testament to their limb design and quality. I did not find the shorter riser or shorter sight window to be any kind hindrance in shooting. The PSA is essentially the same as the PMA except the riser is 16" rather than the 18" PMA. It's only 1" shorter from limb tip to limb tip than my 18" riser PMA. I think in 62" the PSA would "feel" as smooth as my 64" PMA easily.

The PSA will weigh around 3.25 lbs in 62" length. If a guy is looking for a takedown with a very smooth and long working length limb, the PSA in 62" would be an excellent choice. So would the PMA 64" if length is not a deal breaker.

If you call and speak with Roger, you won't regret it. If I could only pick one bow to keep forever out of all the bows I have or have owned, it would be the Widows.

Good luck in your search for your perfect Widow!

[KAZ]

The PCH would be an excellent choice! Good compromise on mass weight, short riser/long working limb makes for a sweet & smooth shooter. Go for the test drive OR better yet find an event like Kalamazoo that the Black Widow folks are attending and shoot all the models & lengths til your heart's content!!!

[Sean B]

I've owned an SA II for 14 years, a PTF, a PSR, a PCH and a KB.  The PCH was probably my favorite.  Very smooth, very stable and I shot it very accurately.  I think that they're all great bows and the guys who own it are top notch guys.