Penetration- large two blade vs small 3 blade

[snowplow]

Hey guys. It seems fairly obvious that a cut on contact wensel woodsman will out penetrate a thunderhead type broadhead that has to 'punch' a hole.

It seems to follow that a two blade grizzly type of head will out penetrate a woodsman due to less drag etc.

What about the large centaur or simmons style two blades? How would you say they stack up against the woodsmans or snuffers.

Though they are a two blade, being so wide I picture them being more akin to a woodsman than a grizzly. If you are looking for a 2 blade for penetration should you consider an interceptor or big game head (or treeshark/battle axe for that matter)?


Just thinking out loud on this one. And trying to classify these heads in my own head.

[Hud]

A two blade with straight, or concaved blade like the Howard Hill, Grizzly broadhead or similar head with a 3:1 ratio will give the best penetration, assuming all else is equal (flight, weight, FOC etc).

[snowplow]

Hey sorry I double posted this question. It seemed like the first post failed so I did it again. Oops..

[Zradix]

The grizzly type get the best penetration..like you said.

I wouldn't THINK a simmons would do to well getting through bone..I'd think when the bone reached the "flare" in the head in would be like hitting a wall.

otherwise...I figure it like so...
take a 175 grain+ VPA 3 blade..it's 1 1/8" cut. or 1.125" in dia.
Each blade then is making a cut 1/2 that...or .5625"
ya got 3 blades cutting .5625" so....  0.5625"x3=1.6875" of blade cutting.

Simmons heads are generally 1 9/16" (1.5625") or the big boy at 2.5"

I'd bet the VPA and the smaller simmons would out penetrate the BIG simmons.

I'd think even though making slightly more of a cut..the VPA would penetrate better than the narrow simmons.
Just because I feel the flare in the simmons would impede penetration quite a bit more than the straight and long edges of the VPA.

If you're looking at the smaller "stubby" 3 blades..I'd go with the narrower simmons.

Those are my thoughts...

[JamesKerr]

Let me start out by saying this, I have shot a decent amount of broadheads. Not nearly as many as some guys on here but quite a few. I've used zwickeys (2 and 4 blades), Woodsmans, VPA's, Grizzlies, Magnus, and Simmons. (The only ones that I haven't killed anything with yet are the simmons but hopefully soon!) So far with all these different heads I can't really tell a difference in which one out penetrates the other on deer or hogs. 90% of the time the only penetration I have been able to measure is how far into the dirt the arrow went after blowing through the deer. I honestly can't remember the last time I shot an animal and I've killed a few that I didn't atleast get total arrow penetration with the feathers hanging up in the exit wound. The only exception was the deer I killed this year and I shot high and hit the back bone. The arrow and broadhead still penetrated the full length of the head though into the vertebrae and paralyzed the deer. The second finishing shot went all the way through the deer at a quartering angle. All this said I shoot 60 lbs. but if you shoot above 50 lbs in bow weight you can pick your poison on whitetails and most hogs and get plenty of penetration.

[Zradix]

JamesKerr has it right.

I'm no super experienced guy here.
I was just being ANALytical about it.

..in the hunting world..they all work pretty darn close..

[Tim Finley]

I hung up an intact deer carcass not field dressed, and shot 7 different heads into it, each multiple times, the WW out penetrated all including the 2 blades.

[Fletcher]

Interesting, Tim.  I've thought about trying that myself.  I can say that I've not seen much penetration difference between broadheads.  Arrow flight is what seems to make the difference for me.

[pinky]

Here are a couple of Pic's from the getting ready portion of last summer. Two Woodsmans (170ish gr), two Zwickey Delta 4blade(170ish gr), and one field point(175 gr). I was just comparing broadhead flight.
 
The target has seen some use and no longer has uniform integrity. The arrows were all shot in the same round. The Wensle Woodsmans did not quite make the wafer board backing. the field point went to the softest part of the target.
 
I was targeting the spots with the broadheads and was happy with their flight when comparing them to the field points. I have no experience with the Simmons broadheads, but from the shared pictures they seem to leave some very impressive wounds.

[Dan bree]

How about the old argument of not getting full penetration and haveing the head do more cutting damage in the body?   But me. I would rather have too holes.

[foxbo]

Tim, were you using the same arrow for your test? Were you using carbons?

[zipper bowss]

If you are considering a narrow 3 blade. I have some Grizzly Instincts that are 1" cutting diameter. They are a long non vented head 2 features that help with penetration.
Bill

[Kevin Dill]

For me it's always about penetration and wound severity. I want enough of both and an excess of both is fine. That would mean a relatively severe hemorrhagic wound which transects the body completely and provides two points of external blood loss. Keep in mind that a broadhead for deer is not always a broadhead for another animal. I will shoot a 2 or 3 blade head with a minimum cut diameter of 1-1/8" and maximum of 1-1/2". I'll probably be found using a 2 blade most of the time, as I happen to like single-bevel heads. To me there is very little argument for or against either broadhead, as long as they meet my requirements.

I just recently picked up 6 Abowyer Whitetail heads which are 1-1/2" and look B-I-G to my eye. I plan to use them on deer (likely just whitetails) and maybe hogs. They look like they would produce a tremendous wound, but likely give up some penetration to the 1-1/4" Wapiti heads I use much of the time.

[tracker12]

I get more than enough penetration with a 3 blade CoC BH and like the 3 cuts vice two.  That 3 blade flap is hard to close up.

[screamin]

I've shot 3 blades and the simmons treeshark into cow shoulder blades. Going thru the scapula part of the shoulder, the thin section, penetration was identical. If you hit the thick sections, those that joint with the leg bone and are the basis of the shoulder, no head gets through.

[Roughrider]

I've also shot a variety of broadheads through a variety of animals and noticed little penetration difference, though I shoot fairly heavy bows, arrows and broadheads.  

I recently shot a 195 lb buck in the left shoulder blade with a Simmons Tree Shark.  The broadhead went through the shoulder blade, into the spine, and dropped the buck in it's tracks.  

The penetration of an arrow is the result of a variety of factors, though I think the cutting surface of the broadhead does play a part.  I've shot a lot of animals with WW heads and think they are great, but currently I like big 2 blades - maybe tomorrow I'll be back to WW.  A 7/8" diameter 3 blade head, 2 1/4 inches long would have 6 3/4" of cutting edge, and a theoretical 1 5/16" cut "width (each blade extends 7/16" from the centerline, for a total of 1 5/16", so perhaps it penetrates better than a wide 2 blade, but then again you're pushing 3 blades with their "wedge" effect, from the start of entrance, whereas the heads like Simmons and Biggames have long, narrow 2 blade tips that start cutting on entrance and open a wound channel.

Shoot what flies best and you can get and keep razor sharp.
 
 

[Roughrider]

you can see in the 2nd photo, the broadhead even clipped the "rib" that stands up on the shoulder blade on entrance - the buck was slightly quartering towards me at just under 20 yards - the hit was a little high, I don't know if the buck ducked or I shot high.

Two weeks later I shot a doe through both lungs with a Centuar Biggame head, single bevel, and it went through her like she wasn't even there.  She trotted off 35 yards, stopped, looked around, and dropped.

[robertson]

hello Roughrider

Just curious , what poundage you shoot at what draw and arrow weight ?

Planning to use the Battle axe this year .

Thank you

[Roughrider]

I shoot 67 pounds @ 29", an RER "LX" longbow with a easton FMJ 300 cut 30 1/2".  I think the arrow is about 725 grains with the Simmons Tree Shark and a 100 gr insert, a little lighter with the Centuar Big Game.

From the wound channels I've seen, there is an advantage to a single bevel head.  When I shot the buck with the Simmons, and saw how it went through the shoulder, I was wishing it had been a single bevel just to see what it would have done - then I found the single bevel Centuar's a couple days later and ordered some.