Light arrows and deer?

[the Ferret]

Port Orford Cedar has always been a premium arrow wood for qualities other than weight, such as ease of straightening, abiltity to stay straight, good recovery from paradox, and believe it or not the abiltity to make a desired weight hunting arrow. It just so happens that up until 25 years ago archers shot mostly 45-50 pounds in draw weight (which is why so many old bows.Bears, Pearsons etc, of that weight are still available ). It's rare to find a 55#er or heavier. Port Orford Cedar easily made a 450-550 grain arrow with a 125-150 grain head which would have given them the desired 10 GGP.

That's good news Chad      

[Ray Hammond]

It was not uncommon for me to have many dozen POC shafts that were in matched dozens exceeding 550 grains as raw shafts.

That is not true any longer.

[Ted A. Young]

This thread is so funny!  CJ posted what I took as a tongue in cheek thread and man did the "authorities" come out of the wood work.  They would seem to say, "my opinion is correct, yours is off base"!  I STILL say nice job CJ.  You must gave your equipment "TUNED" to perfection!  Kind of surprised the thread live this long.

[Papa Bull]

Originally posted by the Ferret:
Port Orford Cedar has always been a premium arrow wood for qualities other than weight, such as ease of straightening, abiltity to stay straight, good recovery from paradox, and believe it or not the abiltity to make a desired weight hunting arrow. It just so happens that up until 25 years ago archers shot mostly 45-50 pounds in draw weight (which is why so many old bows.Bears, Pearsons etc, of that weight are still available ). It's rare to find a 55#er or heavier. Port Orford Cedar easily made a 450-550 grain arrow with a 125-150 grain head which would have given them the desired 10 GGP.

That's good news Chad          

I hope you didn't think I was implying that there were no other positive qualities for POC.  There are, but those other qualities are not exclusive to POC at all.  It is important to note, however, that I completely agree that the recovery from paradox is a good quality of POC and that corresponds to it's stiffness to weight ratio, which is better than other shafts.  I.E.  For a given spine, it can be lighter and that's why it recovers so well.   While it's possible to get arrows of "medium weight" out of POC, it's also possible to get "light" arrows out of POC and it's that light to medium weight combined with other good properties that made it attractive even though it's not nearly the most durable of the wood shafting materials.

I'm bowing out of this thread.  I think there's been enough for anyone to think about.  Whatever choice anyone makes is theirs and theirs alone and there's no "right" or "wrong" choice.  I do not imply there is and hope we all are gracious enough to allow the next gentleman to make his own decisions and respect him for doing so.

[LBR]

Actually both  Sitka Spruce and poplar will generally run lighter than POC.  There may be others--I'm no arrowsmith, and there's lots I don't know about wood.  

POC will usually break easier than some hardwoods, but quality arrows aren't easy to break--especially if you keep them on target.  I've found that if you miss, no arrow material has dibs on which one is easier to find (without a metal detector at least, where aluminum has a slight edge).

I prefer POC for the reasons Ferret described.  Of all the woods I've tried--maple, ash, sitka spruce, douglas fir, logepole pine/chundoo, laminated shafts, and probably a few more I don't recall off-hand--POC has had the best over-all qualities for arrows.  One of the unique qualities of POC is most of it's moisture is not water, but oil.  The sad part is good POC is getting harder to find.  

My experience with hardwoods is they are a royal pain in the butt to straighten and keep straight.  The one time I tried maple shafts, several of them broke on the first shot while bare-shafting into soft foam.  Probably bad shafts, but enough to steer me away from them.

FWIW, I have no problem getting arrows in the 600-650 grain range with 125 grain points, and I don't do anything extra to add weight.

Back to the topic though.......no doubt killing shots can be made with lighter set-ups, and as long as it's legal I won't condemn someone for using what works best for them.  I just don't feel comfortable pushing the limits myself, and speaking for myself and my personal experience in shooting and watching fast, light arrows being shot, there is no real advantage--at least within what I consider reasonable hunting distances.  I've probably seen (and made) as many shots go high as low when they were mis-judged.  I guess the mental aspect could be accounted for--if you think you will shoot better with a certain set-up you generally will, even if there are no physical advantages.

When you get right down to it, nothing will replace time behind the bow as far as being able to put the arrow where it needs to go.  

Again, I hope that nobody reads this and gets the idea that they can magically add 10-20 yds to their hunting range just because they swapped over to a faster set-up;  or think "well, I'm not real sure, but since I'm getting X-fps I'll give it a try".

Chad

[Ray Hammond]

Ted, the only authority on this thread is Ed Ashby. Some of the rest of us just have a lot of miles on us....I've been in on 400-500 hog kills, and over 1000 whitetails. Seen a lot of stuff during the journey.

You know what they say about opinions....I got one of them too.

[RC]

I don`t know that much about arrow weight ,I got cheap scales BUT.in MY experience carbons with BIG two blades and 100 grain adapters work better than anything I`ve shot. I shoot around 50lbs. My next favorite set up is 2020 aluminums with the same broadheads. Mag1 ,zwickey delta or simmons landsharks.My experience with a carbon without heavy insert was . The first deer I hit throught the ribs it was a pass through and recovered easy. the secound I hit shoulder blade with a landshark and the arrow went in and broke at the insert.No recovery.You guy`s do really good with the light side of it and I`1m happy for you. I don`t do so well so I shoot little more arrow weight.I have killed one or two...RC

[Robert Honaker]

I've never had the need to know the yardage inside of 20 yards. So what difference would flatter trajectory make-----it would only make a difference if I were a gap shooter. Even if the yardage was 25 I wouldn't know it. I am not the most experienced instinctive shot by any means, but I have taken several animals with instinctive shooting.I do know that I have killed animals at 25 yards and slightly beyond and never thought about what the range was. I do realize what is close and what is far, but that's about the extent of it. It is MHO that practice is critical so that my mind recognizes familiar scenarios as I come to full draw. This will work no matter what arrow weight I choose, so why not shoot something that is more likely to split a scapula in two than not? Hope I ain't buttin in here.  

[beachbowhunter]

Originally posted by cjones:
Pat, That is the buck i killed last season. That is the entrance wound and the arrow exited between the front legs right where the ribs all come together.

Chad, you seem to have the deer-killing part down and this photo you ALMOST cracked a smile. Guess we need to send Vance down to take your hero shots to loosen you up a bit...  

[Robert Honaker]

Beautiful deer Chad, congrats!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

This thread reminds me of something that happened a few weeks ago when some friends and I were hanging out at the local archery shop, as we often do. My friends are staff shooters who work there one night per week. I'm just a bum who likes to talk about bowhunting.

A customer came in and wanted to buy a 70# Bowtech. They had a lot of 60# bows on the rack, but nothing 70#. We asked what he needed a 70# bow for. He said he was going to hunt whitetails and needed lots of Ke.

My buddy Dave looked at me and asked, "What did you kill that bull moose of yours with last year?" Kind of a leading question really, since he and I went on that hunt together.

"A homemade recurve."

"And how much Ke did you have?"

"I don't know exactly. My arrows were 520 grains going about 194fps, so I suppose that's somewhere around 47 foot-pounds or so. Probably about what you'd get out of a 50# compound."

"How much penetration did you get?"

"In one side, split a rib vertically, out the other side and way off into the cutover. It took us longer to find the arrow than the moose."

Dave looked back that the guy and asked, "So how big are those whitetails you're hunting this year?"

[cajunbowhntr]

Chad, next time ya wanna stir the pot just get a little bigger spoon lol.Now if ya shot that deer with a das and a sight on your bow.ya better be ducking.


CB

[mike hall]

Congrats Chad!
 

[redant 60/65]

Nice deer Chad any deer at any distance is nice, If some of you guys and gals come out here to the southwest you mite think about shooting more than 20 yards, you just don't have the cover, or a tree to sit in, 20 to 40 yards, is the norm.  

[hoebow]

The formula is just that a formula. There is a scientific formula for everything. There is a scientific formula for walking across the street. That doesn't mean that a 30lb bow with a razor sharp broadhead won't do the job. That is the beauty of bow hunting. The critters die from blood loss, not kinetic energy. That is why we are quite in the woods and gun hunters are not.

[cjones]

CB, If it helps, I am a gap shooter!  

[Charlie Lamb]

Good job, buddy!!     Got home from a trip yesterday and couldn't find a doe to shoot at... did pass on 5 different bucks.

[cjones]

Charlie, I wish i had that problem, all i am seeing is does. I shot this one out of the stand behind the house where Vance demonstrated his tree climbing ability!

[Charlie Lamb]

Neat spot and I remember it well... you ever get Vance's finger marks out of that steel ladder?   :D

[cjones]

No i didn't but on the bright side, i have neat finger grooves for when i climb.