Advantages of reverse/forward handle

[**DONOTDELETE**]

No criticism intended bro... just razzing the broom stick boys some... to each his own.

[jhk1]

Tajue says above: "as for shooting, I always thought you lost an inch or two of draw length meaning slower stroke on the arrow...".

With respect to ASLs, you'll lose about 1.5" of limb travel (since the belly side of the limbs is against your hand with a forward-handle bow, vs. the belly side of the limbs being about 1.5" further forward with a regular-handle bow).  However, to get the same draw weight at the same draw length as a regular-handle ASL, the reverse-handle ASL needs to have slightly stiffer/heavier (draw-weight heavier) limbs than the regular-handle ASL.  The reason being that the limbs of the reverse-handle ASL have to get up to X pounds of draw weight with about 1.5" less limb travel than the regular-handle ASL (by limb travel, I mean the horizontal distance the tips move when the bow is drawn).  A 50#@28" reverse-handle ASL doesn't have the same limbs as a 50#@28" regular-handle ASL (assuming bows of equal length).  If you built a reverse-handle ASL and a regular-handle ASL with the exact same limbs, the reverse-handle bow would be around 3.5-4.5 pounds lighter in draw weight at the same draw length as the regular-handle ASL.

That math on limbs is logical enough, however, I think James juices things up a bit for the reverse, mine shoots right with my r/d bows of equal poundage and shorter lengths for distance with the same arrow.  Not a completely scientific comparison, I know, but those are the plain and simple results I get. The ease of accuracy in the field on small game is what really sold me on it. I have found that fried bunny comes before f.p.s., but if the cast is there as well it is so much the better. I wish I had a Vixen to compare to, but I think I am better off sticking to one bow that works for me.

[JDBerry]

Build a bow by numbers? Nothing wrong with that, many Bowyers do. Me Im not good enough to do it that way, I have to do it by feel.

 Over the years a few guys have come into the shop to make there bow themselves, The 1st thing I would tell them is" don't worry about massing up, theres nothing you can do wrong in here, that I haven't done wrong myself, at least 4 times."

  I feel Bowyers like Mr. Hill and Mr. Schulz,and Mr.Anderson went by "feel" also, Numbers didn't mean a lot to them after a lot of years.  ..OE

I never mess up, unless we count the time that I kept, "improving" the all bamboo bow I built until the tips rolled over and died. Or the time that I tried to fix a recurve with a skill saw. Trial and error teaches things that numbers do not. Like yew is wonderful stuff, but its sawdust is deadly.  I would love to do another yew, but it would kill me if I tried. I should have bought that first righty along with the lefty. My kid would have loved it. It would have come in a bit under 60 pounds at his draw, just right for him.

[Sixby]

As a bowyer I want it all!!! Feel, Speed, smoothness, Accuracy shock free yada yada.
The only problem I personally have is that I believe the top mount bow is smoother in looks and esthetically speaking nicer looking.
That one thing aside when you get all of the compromises out of the way a belly mount bow can be almost as fast if not as fast asw the fastest top mount bows. However a boyer has to have his stuff together to do that and understand how the bow works. Soooooooooooo I choose the belly mount platform slightly as with the average shooter (not Kirk) the belly or foreward riser if one piece will have a bit more stability and shootability. Kirk may not notice4 it , I do although his front mount bows such as Sasquatch actually have a foreware riser . In fact I have one right under an EagleWing belly mounted limbed bow and the limbs are on the same plane.

Truth is you can build a highly reflexed limbed bow with top mounted limbs that shoots nice if you get the wedge angles right and if you get the limbs to be best in vertical stability at your preferred brace.

When you get that , LIke KIrk said, that top mount or reflexed risered bow will shoot just as well as a belly mounted bow.

Soooo Personally , I prefer neither over the other. More challenge to me in building the belly mount right though.


God bless, Steve

[Ron LaClair]

  A forward handle helps to eliminate torque and stack in a shorter bow.  

A quote from "The Shrew story"
 http://www.shrewbows.com/super_story.htm#shrewstory

[JDBerry]

PAVAN "Trial and error teaches things that numbers do not" So true pavan, its like a old longbowman (Like yourself) with a braced bow, He knows to stay in the middle with bow preformce. At that point, all points excel in bow preformce.  ..OE

I have a very fast recurve, I need to use a Cantpinch tab to shoot it. With my stout glove, the slightest error on my part sends the arrow up and to the side a foot or more. Numbers don't mean anything if the bow is too sensitive when I don't make a perfect shot. Now sure if I go back to my old target form, I would have a longer draw and I could pack arrows into tight groups and look impressive on flat ground. However, pheasants, turkeys, rabbits and deer don't care how good I look striking that manly pose. All of that stiff long draw form is useless to me if the game is long gone before I can release an arrow.  I need to be much stealthier and I need a bow that can match that stealth and allow me some slack. I am not a perfect shot, my form is not always pure and consistent, neither was Howard Hill's and look at the equipment choices he made. Some think it's wonder he could make meat with that stuff, but he knew what kind of a shot that he wanted to make, he also knew that he was not perfect and needed a little help from his equipment.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh Nooooo!  More horse feathers blowing in...LOL

You guys should read Ron Laclairs link... He's got it going on...  

[JDBerry]

Sir, you are not worth me degrading myself, Have a nice night. ..James D. Berry

With know it alls like Kirky blowing crap over everyone, this forum is not worth it. If I want to play with children I can go next door, at least they understand the basics of human decency.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh for crying out loud... You guys gotta lighten up a bit.... You wouldn't appreciate a little humor if it bit you on the arse...

Look in the mirror, at least you will at least get the arse part right, funny boy.

Years ago in phone conversation with Ron La Clair, this will jog your memory till it hurts Ron, we were talking about the Robertson and Rocky Miller R/D bows. I predicted that longbows could go the way of hunting recurves. More deflex in the handle and more of a working limb, until they were very short and unlike anything we have ever seen before. Ron said not necessarily, but it was interesting. Now all of these years later and there they are. My wife would not let me order anything over $450 for her like a Shrew and the waiting time was too long at the time, so the Lost Creek would have to do, the going price a couple of years back,  but her little bow with the forward riser does have a way of getting bloody every year.  Not bad for a 62 year grandmother that only gets out a few times a year and hunts on the ground.

[Sixby]

Tis the Season to be Jolly    

Peace to you all and God bless you all!!!
I don't have to agree with everything that is said to respect and Love , Neither do you. Also let us not be easily offended but do remember that it is very easy to offend.

God bless you all and have a wonderful Christmas, Steve

[duncan idaho]

The Taliban murdered 17 school children the other day, wounded 36. Last week , they murdered 15 people trying to find land mines for disposal. I know , because its my job to fight them. And people are going to argue over bow design?

[yononindo]

Huh ????    :confused:  

Yes, people are arguing over bow design here … because it is a forum about bowhunting which includes talking about pros and cons about bow designs.

[Zradix]

tough crowd.

all these designs have some trade off in one form or another.
Some of these trade-offs can be offset by design to a point....but there is only so much that can be done without sacrificing too much in yet another area.

Facts are facts though.... The farther the tips of a bow are from each other at full draw along with the least forward distance between your draw hand and the tips the greater/flatter the angle of the string at your fingers.
I FEEL this helps.


another fact...
imagine if ya will...you're holding a horseshoe by the toe with the tips facing out from you. Now imagine a string tied to both tips.
Pull on that string as if a bow. If ya pull that string in any direction other than straight back that shoe is gonna flip right around in your hand.

Now...if ya had that shoe in your hand with the tips facing towards you and you pulled the string again slightly off center the shoe will still turn a bit..but not near as much since it won't have the tendency to keep going around.

The horseshoe example takes the reflex vs deflex handle to the extreme...but explains the point.

personally I like a well rounded bow..middle of the road..a bit of a forward handle..60-64"..seems to be a good balance for me.

There are times I'd like a shorter bow...but I like the lazier string angle.

ymmv...of course...lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That was a really good example of deflex vs reflex grip location Zradix. And quite true if you were using a rounded grip or your grip didn't fit you right. a good reflex design has a flat spot for your thumb pad to settle into the same every time.

I guess the point i was trying to make is that a reflexed riser can be shot just easily & just as accurate as a deflex shape if the archer does his part by not "Gripping" the riser.


I  apologize for offending anyone with my poor attempts at humor. I just have a low tolerance for
bogus statements being made regarding bow design implying that higher performance bows are more difficult to shoot... It simply isn't true.

I have a really tough time with accepting a bow that has noticeable hand shock and a poor cast as a "Great design" just because of its looks and because a famous archer developed it..... Teaching a new archer that he has to grip a bow just right & bend his elbow just right to absorb the hand shock never has settled right with me. This is just my professional opinion on bow design.....Nothing more... no name calling or anything...

 But there are many folks that do love these cool looking bows that kick like a mule, & thats fine..... Everyone has their own opinion, and their own taste in bow design.