Bow Tuning

[Broadhead1]

I need to tune in my new longbow.  I have my nock tied on at 5/8" above the shelf and this seems to work very well with my other two longbows.  My new bow shoots very smooth and on point at 25 yards.  But, even though the grouping is very good my arrows are hitting the target slightly sideways.  Not straight as with my other bows.  I shoot cedar  arrows at 27" draw.  I guess I've been lucky with my other bows as they really needed no tuning.  Where do I begin?

[TealCoin]

You may possibly be shooting the wrong spine arrow.  Have you tried different arrows with the new longbow?  Nock point will throw off the arrow vertically on the target, whereas spine will have an impact on the lateral flight.  Picture an XY axis type.  X axis = spine  Y axis= nock point.

Check out the link here:  He explains if you are a visual type of person.  Hope this helps a little.
 

God Bless

[timbermoose]

Arrows too stiff or too weak, depending what direction they are angled in the target. Try paper tuning. Nock right=too stiff, nock left=too weak. Brace height can be changed a little to correct small amounts of spine. You can cut the shaft to increase arrow spine. Changing point weight will also change the spine. If spine too weak, you can build out the side plate, making the bow require a lower spine.

Welcome to the gang!

[Broadhead1]

My bow is 60lb. at 28" and the spine weight is 60-65.  When my arrows hit the target the nock is consistently a little to the right.

[timbermoose]

What is your draw length? How deep is the rest cut into the riser? What point weight? Arrow length?

[Broadhead1]

Also, the recommended brace height is 6-7".  I have the brace set at exactly 6.5" I received these custom arrows and I thought I had the correct spine weight figured out when I ordered them.  So, before I spend the money on another set I need do do everything I can to try and correct this problem.  I'll try all the suggestions above. But, which should I do first to make the most impact?  I"m a brand new member to this forum and I do greatly appreciate your help!

[bigbadjon]

If the bow shoots well at the brace height you set I would try building out the strike plate first. If you feel it could be tweeked more I would drop the brace height down further to stiffen the spine if its only slightly off.

[timbermoose]

What length are your arrows? Also, do you know what the riser is cut to?

Nock right could indicate too stiff.

You could try changing the brace height. Lowering it would require a higher spine. Raising would require a lower spine.
Change point weight. Higher weight will weeken the spine.

[Broadhead1]

To: Timbermoose,

My bow draws 60lb. at 28".  My draw is 27".  My arrows are 29".  My new bow is a narrow English longbow 72".  So, usually there would be no real rest.  You would shoot off of your left hand.  However, I had the builder put a very small arrow rest on.  Basically just a small thin piece of wood that the arrow rests on.  It sets about 3/4" in from the belly.  The point weight is 1.25.

[Bladepeek]

It sounds like the arrows are shooting a bit stiff. Especially with the shelf not center cut, I would suspect you need to add some point weight. That's an easy thing to try and if you see improvement, try making it heavier still. I have a longbow that needs a bit higher brace height to shoot properly - around 6 3/4". Changing point weight and brace height are quick easy things to try before you go to more drastic measures. Just make sure you change only one thing at a time.

[bigbadjon]

Whoops I did misspeak on my post. My advice for brace height is for impacting to the right.

[timbermoose]

Ah...ha! Good ol' ELB. yup, spine too high.  Two things to do. Increase head weight. LOWER brace height.

I have several ELB's. They like limp noodles for arrows.      
If you can, get a field point test kit. Paper tune. Adjust tip weight  first, then brace height until you get bullet holes.

It's Christmas, so I assume there is a cardboard box around big enough. On two sides cut a 10x10" hole. On one side, tape printer paper, or wrapping paper to it. Set it up 3-4' in front of your target, stand back 10-15' and shoot 3 arrows. Make adjustments. New paper. Repeat, repeat, repeat till bullet holes show up.

[Broadhead1]

Thanks to everyone for your help.  I have most of the day off tomorrow.  So, I'm gonna spend some time trying the suggestions everyone gave me.  Hopefully, I can make some progress.  I have plenty of time as I will be hunting the rest of this season with my other bows and will not be hunting with this one until next fall.  I'll post my results tomorrow sometime.  Also, have any of you had success deer hunting this year?  I've only made it out 3 times this year mainly for one reason.  As far as hunting go's, I'm new to my area.  I've had a hard time getting permission to hunt from land owners.  A lot of the land owners allow hunting. but,  already have too many people hunting their land.  I have obtained permission at two places.  But,  the distance is so far (90 min. one way) that my schedule is to tight to make it out on a consistent basis.  I know this is a different subject.  but, I would like to know if other bow hunters are having the similar issues.  Maybe I can live vicariously through someone else that's had successful hunting  this year.  Lol!!

[nineworlds9]

I'm a huge lover of ELB's.  Such history.  They can be finicky to tune being that the arrow rides so far before center...Timbermoose is right on, they will like a way softer spine than you'd use on the average modern shelfed bow.  Lets say at your draw you're pulling around 57@27 perhaps, though I almost always shoot carbons, even on ELB's (I know, heresy!) I wouldn't be surprised if that bow liked 45 or even 40# woodies.  

Food for thought for supertuning:  if you cant your bow nock point can skew the vertical arrow impact in a diagonal pattern influencing windage.  So for a right hand shooter canting to the right, adjusting nock point higher can send arrows left and down and nock point lower can send arrows up and right...this will be magnified further if your spine is not correct.  That is why it is so important to tune how you are going to shoot, so if you shoot vertical all the time tune vertical, if you cant the bow, do it while tuning.

[timbermoose]

Looking back at my own personal notes, and running your numbers through stu millers calculator. You may end up with 250gr+ up front to get them arrows to spine correctly.

Although, personal form comes into play as well for determining proper spine and tuning. I agree with nineworlds about nock height and canting causing confusing tuning effects. But paper tuning will tell you what to do.  Best results I've had with paper tuning though, the paper and target need to be the same height as your bow. Everything inline. Arrow-paper-target. Running parallel to the ground.
With that done, if your getting a upward right tear, then lower nock point. It should lower the tear, if your canting the bow. And bring it more to the left. But I think your defiantly going to need to raise the head weight dramatically to get them to fly straight.

Come on up and I'll help you out.  

[Broadhead1]

It sounds like my spine weight is too stiff.  I purchased my arrows based on my other two bows that are modern longbows.  I wish I would have joined this forum and asked these questions before I purchased the new arrows.  However, I'll try and work it out.  If I end up having to get lighter spine arrows for this bow it will be worth the time and cost.  I love shooting this bow and I think it will make a good hunting bow.  Live and learn.

[timbermoose]

Before buying new arrows. I'd get the field point test kit AND woodyweights test kit from 3 rivers and play around.  Eventually you will get them to fly right and will have plenty of FOC for good penetration. Win win.

If you can swing it, I would also get a arrow shaft test kit from surewood or 3rivers. You then can play with different spines AND tip weight.  Lotsa fun, but does take some time to get everything perfect, but once you do......

Now that you have an ELB, you could shoot both right and left handed. I started practicing like that after 90% of the time having called black bears coming in from my right. Easier to switch hands than make all sorts of movement trying to position for the shot. Was a suggestion from my 5yr old son.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

[Broadhead1]

To:Timbermoose

I'll check out those Kits tonight and get them on order.  I'm very dedicated to this.  So, it sounds like a good investment.  Also, my wife has expressed interest in archery. So, I have a new longbow being made for her as a surprise.  I really want her have fun.  So, I need to learn how to do this for both of us.

[Broadhead1]

To:Timbermoose,

In your last post you used the term Foc.  Forward of center.  Being a pilot and avid RC plane builder this makes sense.  A tail heavy airplane will not fly well if at all.  A nose heavy plane will fly.  But for optimal results the balance should be at the center of gravity.  I know there's more to an arrow being shot from a bow. But, am I on the right track?

[damascusdave]

FOC with wood arrows is often determined by available point weight...in general point weight between 125 and 145 grains, two commonly available weights, will give you adequate FOC...if you wish to become very confused do a search on FOC for carbon arrows...you will find advocates of a very wide range of FOC

DDave