Are longbows more tolerant of release issues?

[Morning Star]

Bow lengths being equal.  In your experience, does a longbow limb do better than a recurve in regard to finger pressure and other release issues?

[dbd870]

I am a recurve shooter but I have shot a few people's longbows and I have not really noticed anything. Now I draw 28.5, maybe if you had a long draw length an used one of the shorter bows perhaps so. Maybe if I spent more time with a longbow it would become noticeable?

[damascusdave]

I got a headache just now even thinking about it...I would sooner devote my thought process to taking care of those issues...I guess one thing that just came to mind is the number of longbow limbs we see on FITA bows...those people have a whole different level when it comes to finger pressure and release issues

DDave

[macbow]

Howard Hill was quoted as saying he shot longbows because his shooting would not hold up shooting the recurves.

That would have been a straight limb longbow.
With the newer longbow,styles,with heavy R/D limbs and hybrid styles the two are closer.

[nineworlds9]

I'm in the 'yes' opinion camp.  A recurve limb needs to be really stable in construction to be as forgiving as most longbows out there, but there was a good point made that hybrids have blurred the lines somewhat.  Yes bow length is a factor as well, but overall the less bends in a limb and the more torsionally stable it is the easier it will be to shoot well.  Can you imagine if Hill bows had pistol grips and no bump how popular they'd be just based on being mild mannered shooters?  The FITA comparison doesn't really hold up Dave because no one is offering ILF longbow limbs that have the cast to compete with a recurve limb at 70 meters.  Yes there are some fast longbow limbs out there but when you build it as a 68 or 70" platform no one drawing to 28" is gonna get enough oomph out of the limbs to equal a well designed curve limb for that application and on the risers available.  You'd have to have a 25" riser with almost vertical pad angles and some pretty hot rod limbs.  It would be an interesting experiment.  I think Mike at Dryad has fooled with the concept some and I have also messed with high end longbow limbs on a 21" DAS riser cranked all the way down.  They were quick but no where near as effective at longer distance as hi-po curve limbs.  

All that being said there are some outstanding forgiving recurves out there.  I have had excellent experiences shooting Robertson, Schafer, Habu, and now currently Whippenstick...all very forgiving for recurves.  That doesn't even include all the great FITA ILF curve limbs I have messed with.  Try some Sebastien Flute Elite+ limbs on an ILF or DAS riser.  They are the definition of forgiving yet fast.  Or some Dryad ACS RC, whoa!

[nineworlds9]

Again, like a previous poster pointed out, the performance gap between hybrids and curves is getting narrow.  Noteworthy is that riser geometry is important, I'm pretty opinionated myself that the farther forward the deepest part of the grip on a riser is vs the fades/ first working curve on a limb the less critical of shooter error the bow will be.  One example I remember is the A&H ACS vs Dryad Orion ACS.  Mike and co. did a great job with their version IMHO because they made it just as quick if not a little quicker than the A&H but easier to shoot due to the deflexed riser layout.

HORSEFEATHERS, however, I have shot a number of  58" and under recurves that were touchy for me, while the  58" and under hybrids that I have tried, shot pretty nice for me. The most consecutive hits on quarters tossed across my large target has been with a Super Kodiak, not a longbow.

[Sam McMichael]

I tend to think longbows are more forgiving, at least in my experience. However, I can not truthfully say that I have shot many recurves or straight bows side by side in an effort to verify this.

[McDave]

My regular morning shooting buddy, after observing me shoot for a few weeks with my 64" Dakota Pro Hunter recurve, followed by a few weeks with my 66" Toelke Lynx longbow, made the comment that I am more accurate with the Dakota if I do everything right, but my errors aren't as great with my Lynx when I do something wrong.  Pretty perceptive, I thought.

[Red Beastmaster]

I never noticed a difference. But then, I never noticed that I have release issues.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by pavan:
HORSEFEATHERS, however, I have shot a number of  58" and under recurves that were touchy for me, while the  58" and under hybrids that I have tried, shot pretty nice for me. The most consecutive hits on quarters tossed across my large target has been with a Super Kodiak, not a longbow.

FOFLMAO!!!!!  My feelings exactly Paven... Where do you come up with all this stuff 9? Generalizations, bogus  speculations, and opinions.... Good grief brutha... you need to build a few bows and find out the truth of the matter....        :rolleyes:

[dhermon85]

No

I have had recurves that were very good on release, even for me, like Black Widows.  I won't say which ones were not, because they were probably only touchy for me. For some reason the BWs, Bear takedowns and Super Kodiaks are good for me, I just prefer the fast handling of longbows. As far as performance goes, at close hunting ranges those things that help me shoot better are always more important than speed.  I wonder if release forgiveness has more to do with string angle than final limb shape, with the added benefits that a forward gripped riser and a deflexed limb can give.

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by Kirkll:
 

Originally posted by pavan:
HORSEFEATHERS, however, I have shot a number of  58" and under recurves that were touchy for me, while the  58" and under hybrids that I have tried, shot pretty nice for me. The most consecutive hits on quarters tossed across my large target has been with a Super Kodiak, not a longbow.

FOFLMAO!!!!!  My feelings exactly Paven... Where do you come up with all this stuff 9? Generalizations, bogus  speculations, and opinions.... Good grief brutha... you need to build a few bows and find out the truth of the matter....              :rolleyes:   [/b]

Sounds good, I'll jive with your generalization comment, sure bows are like shoes, biomechanically everyone is different and not all folks enjoy the same footwear.  Anyway, I know a few bowyers I can contact when I'm ready for pointers once I invest in some equipment.  That being said I'd rather be shooting them than building them.  "I just drive the darn things"  I'm an intermediate shooter at best but I'm pretty analytical and have an eye and feel for quality.  You don't need to be a tournament winner to tell an easy shooting bow from a not so easy shooting bow.

[Mr. fingers]

I shoot my Big Jim Buffalo way better than my Bob Lee hunter. Recurve but it may not just be apples and oranges. Longbow or recurve. My bob Lee is a lot faster and the grip is way to fat for my hands and I think there is a bit of stacking as well which I think makes it less forgiving for me. As to where my Buffalo a hybrid mind you is buttery smooth and the grip fits my hand nice so its very comfortable for me to shoot. Making it more forgiving for me.

I am just having fun here, however, I did hit 5 quarters in row at ten yards that were tossed across my four by six target, and I also made some good hunting shots on moving game with the Bear. I will not comment on bows that I have no experience with, but the newer bows with deflex do seem to be more forgiving than the straight handled bows that I have that were made in the 50s.  I do not rate recurves sensitive by requoting Hill's exploits with his recurve experiments, because recurves of today are a completely different thing than the bow that he wrote about.  As far as speed, I have seen a number of modern longbow hybrid bows shoot every bit as quick as some recurves.

One other point about release forgiveness would be, how does a bow react to varied draw lengths?  We are all suppose to be perfect shooting machines, but we are not. Our draw lengths can have variations. In one video Byron Ferguson, talks of getting a shorter hunting bow to make up for that inch that is commonly lost in draw lengths on hunting shots. Sometimes I hit the broadhead on my finger when I shoot at deer and sometimes I do not, my draw obviously varies on hunting shots. I read once that a Hill style limb can be more efficient per inch at a shorter draw than the same bow at a longer draw, due to gaining limb hysteresis.  To me this leaves open the possibility that the arrow will have less speed variance with a somewhat shortened draw, even if the bow is over all slower.

[el chupa nibre]

Originally posted by Kirkll:
 

Originally posted by pavan:
HORSEFEATHERS, however, I have shot a number of  58" and under recurves that were touchy for me, while the  58" and under hybrids that I have tried, shot pretty nice for me. The most consecutive hits on quarters tossed across my large target has been with a Super Kodiak, not a longbow.

FOFLMAO!!!!!  My feelings exactly Paven... Where do you come up with all this stuff 9? Generalizations, bogus  speculations, and opinions.... Good grief brutha... you need to build a few bows and find out the truth of the matter....            :rolleyes:  [/b]

Kirkll,

I may be generalizing here (wink wink) but I think it would be safe to say that the majority of users on Tradgang have not built a bow. Therefore, a majority of the users here speak from experience as consumers, meaning that we shoot the bows that were built by talented bowyers like yourself. And because we're mainly only shooters, we won't really have the knowledge that is gained from the building experience. However, that lack of building knowledge doesn't preclude users like nineworlds9 from being able to voice their opinions. I could understand if you were to call out an individual who was speaking on third-party testimony, but nineworlds offered his personal experience of shooting the bows he mentioned.

And I wouldn't discount his opinion because opinions (from personal experiences) are still valuable, even if they might seem misguided from your learned perspective. If we were to take your perspective, the only people who can review cars should be the engineers who designed them. But driving a car is a tactile experience just like shooting a bow is a tactile experience; you don't need specialized knowledge to know if you individually (and personally) like the characteristics of that particular bow/car. I can respect your talent as a bowyer but I just internally grimaced reading your comments. No one likes a bully.

While I do not disagree with anything ole number nine said.  I must point out that in my experience with FITA target bows, the arrow rest, the weights and stabilizers can make or break how that bow will shoot for anyone in particular.  I always felt them to be a machine with bendy parts. But as with any lighter weight bow, I always had to shoot them with a tab and they were way too slow to get on target for me to ever get them lined up on the deer and turkeys in our neighborhood.  One other point, niners did honestly try to enhance the conversation to answer the OP's question, while others that have bow building experience have not yet added any helpful input to the OP's question.
   I have pointed out a condition before where a Hill style bow can have lateral problems, just to get mocked about it and that is fine. Kirk does not understand Hill style bows with standard grips, like he does his own bows.  The problem and solution to that particular bow's sensitivity was coached by Louis Armbruster, a man that really understood how a Hill style bow should function and the results were obvious.

[overbo]

This is my take right or wrong but it's what I like to stick too,

Recurves, unstrung you place the bow against a flat surface w/ the limb tips touching 1st and see how much the limb tips support the riser above that flat surface. This is a good indication of the amount of pre-load built into the design. The higher the riser sets off that flat surface. The more the pre-load. Strung, grab the limb tip and twist it! If the bow limb tip is easily twisted, then it will be sensitive to string torqueing. Lastly, while strung, If you grab the string nock and you are able to move the string up and down, limbs moving up and down, again another possible release sensitive characteristic.

All, above can be said w/ longbows w/ excluding the limb tip twist check. Of course there are other factors in a design that can some what balance the factors
mentioned above.