Holy crap, I am glad I found this thread I was about to gather up all my grizzlies and sell them. Just before Christmas I set up my KME to work on my grizzlies and I kept working and working and it seemed I was going no where. I have a dozen of the black 170s and thought I would see what I could do with them, first I couldn't get enough angle, so I just dealt with it and kept at it, finally got full contact on the edge but still cant get it sharp. It was just yesterday I picked up the whole setup and put everything away, I was actually going to list them in the classifieds because I was pretty much done trying to get any where. Now that I know to change the angle to 25deg, I will have to figure out how to accomplish that with a file. Good thread.