Backcountry Tipi buying help

[WLAF]

this is another feature that sets my stuff apart in a very good way;

the stove jack is not easily damaged because i sew in the main jack that never comes in contact with the hot pipe. the snap on insert that is interchangeable for all size pipes, is replaceable without having to sew in a new jack when it rips or is damaged. plus you are able to run several different size stovepipes out of the same tent.

 

[RookieBwhunter]

I currently have the Seek Outside Back Country Shelter 2 with the medium Ti stove. I absolutely love it. I was skeptical about going floorless but with numerous weekend trips I couldn't be happier. Plenty of room for myself and gear/firewood. I probably wouldn't plan for more than 2 people with gear to camp extended times with it. But then again I do not believe that's its intended purpose. I did seam seal this tipi so I am not sure whether it needed it or not but I didnt want to take any chances this fall knowing I was expecting rainfall. The tipi handled a full night of constant rain as well as a snowy weekend here in PA this fall flawlessly. Like I said, I couldn't be happier. I can stand upright (only 5-10) and stretch/change clothes, etc. The stove was easy to set up and kept me toasty in 20 degree weather with snow all around. I was able to use the stove to warm up water for my meals as well so I didnt need to pack my jetboil/accessories. I would definitely recommend this tipi with no reservations.

[WLAF]

all is fine and well in snow and rain... i have a plastic hardware store tarp that handles those 2 elements rather well and it cost me 10 bucks at hardware hanks....

it is when the weather takes a crap on you with sustained 60-80 mph winds and blowing ice that a shelter gets a true workout... i have absolutely no issues with one of my dyneema or cordura tents handling that. we can do a side by side test if you want, but it might turn your sil. tent into a flapping bundle of rags... lol.

[Tutanka]

John at Bear Paw Wilderness Designs has been working with Cuben for some time now.  The problem with Cuben is when you factor in the price per pound it is so expensive that it almost doesn't make sense to use it.  But, if your looking for lightweight, it's gonna be tough to beat Cuben.

Zpacks is another one that has been offering Cuben fiber shelters.  But, once again the price really goes up for that option.

[WLAF]

how much do you guys think a 6 lb. cuben tipi say 15 ft. diameter and 8 ft. tall that would be around the same strength as the current nylon ul. tipis.... with 2 doors (h2o proof) and high wear stove jack. in green or black... would be valued/worth in the retail market all things considered?

[Aggieland]

Hard to say what it would cost. I will have to check out what some of the others are asking for tipi's in that size range cost now.
  My thought process on Tipi's is go big or don't bother. I mean if you just want a single or double man type shelter their are lots of designs that are light weight. But when it comes to Tipi's most of the guys I know want something Really big for group or base camp hunts. If I could get anything I wanted I would want a 12-16 man Size tipi out of some medium/heavy Cuben fiber with a Carbon fiber pole.
 IF I were going to design a lighter weight shelter for less people (2-4) I would design something out of cuben fiber that was along the same design of the Sawtooth but larger. Heck you could make a Sawtooth that is taller and wider in the tipi section and have two sections off of the tipi in opposite directions 90 deg's from each other and probably still be really light weight.

[WLAF]

Aggie, i have a design in process that sounds like it will be right up your alley.... i can show you some drawings of it if you promise not to let the cat out of the bag... message me if you want.

[Cari-bow]

Well Steve it looks like you've done well in asking questions on tipi's. This is a great thread with lots of info and it keeps coming.

I well say this I spent 10 days in SO tipi setting it up almost ever night at a new location. Had 2 very windy nights with hard rain one night. The flapping didn't allow for much sleep. The second night was at the end of our trip. Before we set up we could see the trees all had a permanent lean to them from years of strong winds. It rained of and on and then snowed the last part of the night. The winds where very strong that night with gusts in the upper 50 mile an hour range. When the gusts came it snapped the tipi so hard there was next to no sleeping again. There were many times I thought it would left off. The tipi held up just fine which is a testament to the fabric and workmanship.
I will say this if there is a fabric that doesn't sag when wet and is light weight that's what I would choose the next time. Piece of mind and a good night sleep are hard enough to find.
I'm following this thread with great interest.
Abe

[Montanawidower]

Brian,

I just looked at Hyperlite's site... They want $825 for a 6 1/2 tall by 9 ft square, four paneled tipi with one door (made of Cuben).   It also does not include a pole or stakes....

I would imagine a tipi like you are describing would be two and half times the fabric and more labor for the extra panels.  Plus extra for the two doors and bells and whistles.   Also I read Cuben dulls the heck out of cutting and sewing steel.  So maybe 2K to 2400 for an eight man by those numbers...   Plus more for the pole and stakes?

Thats a big chunk of change for a plastic tipi.    

[Aggieland]

Sounds good, glad to see someone with skills working to raise the bar.  My thoughts on the different company's vary some, I believe Kifaru is focusing more on packs and super ultralight tarps with the same material they have had for quite sometime. Seek outside has their part of the market rolling now with improvements on the tipi field but also hard to go way out on a limb due to material cost..  WL&F is the newcomer and it's trying & making things from all kinds of materials. Can't wait to see what the future holds!

[WLAF]

not just the tipis either, but other tent designs as well as a carbon fiber version of the old dana shortbed frame and new pack bags for it...with an updated suspension. plus my wyoming stoves and wyoming boiler are breaking new ground in the heating department. it is worth a look at what i am doing and my stuff evolves constantly. like the grill stove..... i have youtube vids.

[Kevin Dill]

My personal experience with tipi-sag has been that it's minimal, only slightly bothersome, and easy to remedy. Almost any woven fabric will have some stretch and movement in the weave, and will relax after being pitched a day or two. Wind, rain and temp fluctuation may make it more noticeable, but never severe for me. My center pole rests on a flat stone. If I notice enough sag to warrant an adjustment, I simply raise and lengthen the center pole via the push-button adjuster, which tightens the pitch and removes any sag. I usually do this only once on a 12 day Alaska hunt with temps from 10F to 70F and everything from bright sun to cold rain and snow. I have never had my tipi sag noticeably at all when correctly pitched. It goes without saying that a bigger tipi will be more likely to experience some stretch after pitch.

I personally prefer fabrics which have some stretch and give in their weave. This reduces stress on seams and pressure points (cones, stake loops, etc) adding to the overall life of a tipi. I've seen the videos where correctly-pitched tipis withstood near-hurricane winds, while floored tents were damaged by wind getting under the tent and lifting it. Tents and tipis need to flex and move some in response to wind gusts, or else damage will occur to fabric or structure. This has always been a basic tenet of mountaineering tents exposed to huge and nonstop winds.

I might be interested in a non-stretch (and ultralight) fabric option, but not until I had seen proof of it's long-term durability in all weather and wind. A doubling in price would need to be accompanied by major benefits immediately, plus over the longer term. I'm not a strong doubter...I'm just one of those guys who let others assume the risk while I watch for feedback.

[Preston Lay]

My experience with sag is the same as Kevin mentioned. Last fall in Alaska found us tucked away in the Kifaru 8 man several days straight, suffering through more than 30" of consecutive rain. Even through this sag was not an issue. I think its important to set the center pole on something solid to prevent it from sinking in the ground.  

My thoughts on tipis, the best option for backcountry living. No floor is awesome you can sleep on a ground clothe and no worry of muddy wet boots, spilled coffee, ect. A wood burning stove is to die for. Standing to put on clothes early in the morning will make you never want to do it any other way. I have had no bad experiences thus far , its never blown away when I thought it might , no rain has come through even through 30". Snow has piled high to make me worry but it will finally slide down. I sound like a salesman! But it all true and 100's of miles in the Alaskan wilds we live very comfortable.

[WLAF]

Hi Kevin....  here is what you said ....

I personally prefer fabrics which have some stretch and give in their weave. This reduces stress on seams and pressure points (cones, stake loops, etc) adding to the overall life of a tipi. I've seen the videos where correctly-pitched tipis withstood near-hurricane winds, while floored tents were damaged by wind getting under the tent and lifting it. Tents and tipis need to flex and move some in response to wind gusts, or else damage will occur to fabric or structure. This has always been a basic tenet of mountaineering tents exposed to huge and nonstop winds.

cordura and yes even dyneema totally eliminate the issues with extreme tensioning. you are not going to damage a cordura tent with over tension. one of the proofs still to come once i get an extra tent to try this out with, is that i will be taking a cordura tent, rig it between 2 trucks, one stuck in the snow or mud, and use it as a tow /pull rope to drag the stuck truck out. this will demonstrate the absolute strength of the cordura tent.

[WLAF]

i am also running 550 cord inside my seams on the sil and ripstop tents. over tension will be eliminated by doing this step in the build as well....

[tukudu]

Folks I had what I consider one of the best  conversations with Brian this morning. He knows his stuff and is the real deal in  in my estimation. Answered all my questions, provided a lot of great suggestions for a tipi suited /tweaked to my needs. I followed this post and did a bit of research for the last couple of months prior to his talk this morning he convinced me to pull the trigger. My deposit is going out this week. Thanks again Brian, tom massaro

[Aggieland]

Your killing me Tom!! I guess I need to figure out what i'm looking for and make a call as well. I have a while before I head out in August but, I lie awake at night thinking about tent options..  

[tukudu]

Casey I know the feeling believe me that is all I have been doing but that is the fun of it on something like this . What helped me make my decision was the Hands on experience that Brian has in extreme weather conditions in the West. Wyoming and Colorado have some vicious wind storms and he has tested his product for sure. Good luck and I hope it turns out  for you.

[Aggieland]

Tom, mind telling us what you decided to have built?

[Aggieland]

Brian, I'm wondering what demensions are on your larger size tipi's like a 10,12, 16 man sizes? Just looking at pics and they appear shorter than some of the other brands. The Dyneema and condura looks like the best materials for durability and still somewhat afordable.