Backcountry Tipi buying help

[Tutanka]

I've spent a fair amount of time in both the 4 man and the Sawtooth.  In my opinion these two shelters are not even close, I would choose the Sawtooth every time. Being able to pull the walls out on the Sawtooth gives you way more usable space than on the 4 man.  The 4 man really pushes a person in towards the center of the tipi. The only thing that I personally like on the 4 man over the Sawtooth is that the stove on the 4 man is in the center; whereas, the stove on the Sawtooth is really close to the opening.  If the 4 man had two entries this would also be a bonus when two people are in the tipi.  Also, I personally feel that you divide the tipi number in half when it comes to how many people you want in the tipi, i.e. a 4 man = 2 people, 8 man = 4 people.  This is with gear, stove and fire wood.  

Another thing to keep in mind is are you only going to use the shelter seasonally, or year round.  I personally only run a stove from mid September through the winter.  After that I opt for a lighter shelter.  A stove is nice no doubt about it, but are you planning on running a stove or like suggested above are you simply looking at weights.  It really does boil down to the needs of the individual.

[Steve O]

I was SO happy to get rid of my 4 man. My 8 man and Supertarp give me all I need.

I have a friend who had a Seek Outside center pole break and have heard of a few more do the same thing.

Are any of you who have all this room in a Sawtooth over 6' tall?  Just asking because "theoretically" I could stand up in my 4 man according to the specs. In actual reality there was no chance.

[Chesapeake]

I run a Black diamond megalight. They also make a megamid that's the same size, different fabric, but heavier.

You can buy a TI goat stove and stove jack kit, or Seek Outside stove, ect.... if you want.
Also good to add tie-out points center wall to give a little room and prevent sagging.

But....you couldn't stand in it.

I like the Kifaru 6 man TP and their mid sized stove. Pretty sure Kevin(?) from Seek had a big hand in the stove design.....It works good for fall hunts with 3 or maybe even 4 guys. You can have a stove, hang gear, keep packs in the tent, ect...

If your on a budget look at Oware. They don't have the crazy big name mark up. I run their Cat Tarp and my pards run some of their other stuff.
   http://shop.bivysack.com/Pyramid-and-Alphamid-Tarps_c4.htm

The 11x11 TP should let a guy stand hugging the center pole.

[8Crow]

My buddy bought a Seek Outside 8-man with a carbon fiber pole and a large titanium stove.  I've helped pitch it every time it's gone up in elk and deer seasons, slept in it for 4 or 5 nights and spent several more shooting the breeze around a glowing stove.  Probably not used as extensively as some folks on here have used theirs, but we've had no issues with it whatsoever.  

Not a tent, I also have one of the Seek Outside packs and have nothing but good things to say about it.

[AkDan]

Good stuff Tut thanks!   Thanks also Chesapeake!  That goat stove looks pretty dang slick!  Did you do the mod on the black diamond or have it done professionally?  I'd assume the 3" is more than enough to dry off and bust the chill/boil water?  Their tipi's don't look half bad as well.   Good site!

[AkDan]

Has anyone tried the Kelly Kettle?  I've been eye balling them for 2 years now.   might pull the trigger, be good for fishing trips anyways.

[Chesapeake]

Originally posted by AkDan:
Good stuff Tut thanks!   Thanks also Chesapeake!  That goat stove looks pretty dang slick!  Did you do the mod on the black diamond or have it done professionally?  I'd assume the 3" is more than enough to dry off and bust the chill/boil water?  Their tipi's don't look half bad as well.   Good site!

A guy can sew it himself fine, done it both ways. They will sew in a jack, and add guy-out points, ect... for pretty reasonable.

My experience with the 2 or 3 stoves we've had has been the same. They burn kindling, need constant attention, have 2 modes (glowing and cold), and you get all sooty trying to put them away. But dang its nice laying in your sleeping bag toasty warm feeding the fire.

You can boil water, but I find my Jetboil Ti to be better for that.

I have a Singer Model 503 Slant-O-Matic sewing machine I use for such things. Its old school all metal, it sews or it breaks the needle. I get my fabrics from "Seattle Fabrics". Yes, I'm a guy with a sewing machine. I've made a good amount of gear.
My next project is knock-off wiggy's waders. Seattle fabric had all the materials, even the sand textured rubberized cordura for the soles. I'll make maybe 3 pair for the price of 1. But at $60 a pair buying isn't bad.

Kelty's Noah's tarp is also a great product. We used 1 for years for a backcountry goat shelter, or a tall shelter alongside the tent for standing around BS'ing, cooking, ect..... Its just poly coated polyester/nylon. You could make your own cheap......

[njloco]

If you Know how to use a sewing machine you can make yourself some real cool s..t.

Has anyone tried using Tyvek for making a shelter ?

[Chesapeake]

For years we used tyvek for throw mats for the floor of our TP's. It's light and all, but really noisy. It sounds real tinny and rustly (yes those are technical terms) with any slight movement. As a shelter it would be unbearable. Also it quickly looses its water resistance when it's folded and kinked. It fuzzes out and breaks down.
You can buy silnylon or PU coated polyester for plenty cheap enough that there is little reason to look for alternative fabrics.
If your running a small R&D budget then buy a cheap blue tarp and make your shelter from that till you have your design perfected. You can cut and sew it like any fabric.

[njloco]

Thanks for the info on Tyvek, I've been using a hammock for the floor when and if i need one, it's one of those hammocks that can be used for multi purposes.

[Kevin Dill]

I've been using Tyvek for years. Ground cloth, meat tarp, shade tarp, etc. I've folded the edges and taped them, then installed grommets. I once hung a Tyvek bag filled with 3 gallons of water, and it didn't leak a drop in 24 hours. If you take a new piece of Tyvek and just spend 5 minutes crushing and scrunching it in your hands it will be 75% quieter than when new. The stuff is cheap and strong. If you don't want to pack it out, just burn it completely. It leaves no sticky mess in a firepit.

I studied and plotted and saved until I found my ideal sewing machine; a Bernina 830 built back in the 1970s. I love this machine and it sews like a Swiss watch. Making or customizing my own gear is immensely satisfying. I can sew anything from sil-nylon to nylon webbing to leather and heavy wool. Now I just need to have Lasik done so I can see what I'm doing, lol.

As UL stoves go, they all are like having a toddler at dinner time. You have to feed them and keep an eye on them. They're a bit fussy and tend to take a crap at inconvenient times. Still, I haven't found anything better than staring at a flickering woodstove and hearing the pop-crack noises as I fade out.

[AkDan]

I can tie flies like a mad man, but cant sew to save my life!   I'm luck if I don't break a button before I'm done trying to sew it on LOL!  I plum gave up on it lol!

Kevin, I wouldn't consider the Kelly kettle light, assuming that's what you ment by UL.  But it does alleviate fuel on my summer raft fishing trips.  I don't cook, just boil water, the KK would give the option for both if so desired.  Looks slick anyways.  I typically carry my snowpeak unless its early or late in the year than I'll jump to the whisperlite.  Ironically (or maybe not depending on how well you know me LOL), I'm not a big fan of the jet boils.  I do like think the MSR reactor is a better (faster) stove without all the frills the jet boil has.   But honestly I really like the compactness of my snowpeak and its light weight I believe on shorter hunts under a week out weighs the Jetboils.   I don't do coffee so its basically just a water boiling system for my uses.   The KK wouldn't be in my sheep pack by any stretch, or any other hunts/trips where weight was a real issue.

I thought the KK might be a better option for fishing/camping/hunting trips that are not so weight snobbish LOL!

Sorry I don't mean to get off topic.  Maybe we should throw out a wilderness gear thread and let it roll, I know there's a pile of guys on here with a LOT more experience in these departments than just a handful of us.

[Kevin Dill]

For the record: I have an 8-man and I won't ever be without one at least that size, along with a good stove. This isn't backpacking gear. It's basecamp-only and that's it for me.

I've been looking for a lighter (than 8-man) and smaller shelter suitable for 1-2 men + gear. It needs to have great wind-shedding ability and standup room is a huge plus...extremely huge, if going to be stationary and used for more than 4-5 days. It should be backpackable if desired, but most of the time it will not. For my money it's going to be a Sawtooth and stove. I've got a hunt planned in higher country where the 8-man stays behind.

[Orion]

I think you have it figured out Kevin.  I have a 6-man Kifaru. A little taller than the Sawtooth, but a bigger footprint as well, and that can be a problem in steep country.  I think the Sawtooth, with it's steeper sides probably has more room than a 6-man.  Not more than an 8-man though.  Of course its weight and footprint is also much less.  Would make a decent base camp for two people I think, as wells packable in most instances particularly with a partner who can carry the stove, pegs, etc.

[backcountrybowman]

Does anybody have any experience with the bear paw designs Luna 4 or 5 tents?  They look nice on paper and are pretty reasonably priced.....  http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/luna.html

[Steve Chappell]

Personally, after talking/communicating with 3 makers of tipis, which I zeroed in on, Kifaru, Seek Outside and Wyoming Lost and Found, along with people who use their products and getting input form many people through threads like this...I feel there are as good or better options to Kifaru tipis out there, some cost less and other more.  Look at all the options pointed out in this thread that other have used and like. To all you diehard Kifarue tipi users, I am not saying Kifaru tipis are not quality, they are!  I am saying if you go into buying a tipi with an open mind, as I did, and really look at what is out there, one can get a comparable american made quality tipi at a lower cost with a lot more really useful bells whistles at less cost. You can also get ones more expensive.  

The Sawtooth design is intriguing to me for all the reasons Kevin and other have pointed out.  An 8 man tipi and a Sawtooth would be a great setup for just about any camping setup I would want.  I would like to be able to walk into all my shelters and that will only beceome more important as each year passes.  I think this is the route I will take...as money allows.

Chesapeake...the person you so eloquently called "That drunk Wyoming guy" has a name and based on everything I have uncovered in talking to him and his tipi users, Wyoming Lost and Found makes outstanding products and he is an incredible craftsman. He has been nothing short of professional and good to deal with!  Not once did he take a shot at his competitors to discredit them…unlike what I got from another company.  Not sure why you felt the need to portray him here in that ugly way?  I trust you are a better person than what that comment portrays.

[fujimo]

hear hear!

[Aggieland]

I wish someone would make a Sawtooth type tent that is a little taller, a little longer and slightly wider. One that will fit 3-4 people well and have the stove moved to a different location "If that will work" It would need a liner of some type. I think the Sawtooth is perfect for 2 people but if you ever have 3 or 4 folks going it's going to take two tents or a large TP.  I am still on the fence on what to buy, either a really large 12-16 man TP or getting a Sawtooth for me and my Dad and telling my other hunting partners to bring something of their own. ;(

[Kevin Dill]

It's a basic tenet that a 3-4 man (or more) shelter isn't going to be what 1 or 2 guys need, unless weight and space is of no concern. If that's the case, get a 12-man tipi. I can fit 4 in my 8-man, but it's tight and (with stove and firewood) some gear might get left outside. A 12 would be perfect and a 16 is a palace royale. Anything beyond an 8-man for two guys is overkill and luxury. The Sawtooth (which I don't own but have studied hard recently) is not designed for more than 2 really, but 3 can pinch in there. It's a unique design and doesn't lend itself (I think) to a larger size. I'll take the bigger tipi every time until weight/space is restricted, then it's time to downsize.

[Chesapeake]

I've run the gamut. We started with a mega light and jetboil. Allowed 2 or 3 guys to pack in and carry a deer out in 1 load.
Then we added a Ti stove. This added weight and reduced the tent to a 2 man. We added a mega light. Then we could do 4 guys and 2 deer.
Then we added pack goats and we could do a deer for each guy. But then we wanted more comfort so we added a Kifaru 6 man and medium stove.
The goats were a year round pain so I sold mine.
My current setup is back to the mega light and jetboil. My pard still has the 6 man and stove. It's good for a cached camp, airplane base camp, rafting, car camp, ect.....
In my view it's only packable if you plan to make trips packing meat, or you have non-hunters along.