Backcountry Tipi buying help

[Steve Chappell]

I think I have found the common shortcoming we are all pleagued with...MONEY! Lack there of...to own a tent for every situation we may need.

Chesapeake...I knew you were better than that comment! Thank you for proving it!

Aggiland...I feel your pain...I too am always looking for the setup that is best for everyone I hunt with...not just my needs.

In my tipi exploration I ran into a tipi owner who raises Alpachas and uses them to hual his gear in.   P Smith used goats in one video I saw.  I think for us guys who are getting older this would be a nice addition for packing in...then you can take that 12 man.

[Tutanka]

Lots of good info in this thread for sure.  The only other thing that I might add would be to talk to Evan or Scott at Hill People Gear.  Given, they do not make a shelter, but the have used seek outside, kifaru, go-lite, and some others that I can't remember.  I've always gotten good advice from those guys, they are straight and too the point. Might be worth a email or phone call.

[Kevin Dill]

Nobody is more critical of Kifaru gear than Kifaru owners. Scott & Evan used to regularly critique their offerings, and they held nothing back. I've been critical (but honest) in my appraisal of some of their stuff, as I saw it and used it. Nothing is perfect anyway. After 8 years of hard use, my 8-man is going strong and I still marvel at how nice it is. Considering the original price and what used ones bring, it's arguably a best-value on the tipi market.

Goats stink and are noisy. I refuse to use an alpaca or llama. Anything that spits at me when unhappy would get clobbered and used for camp meat. For what animals cost year-round I could probably hire a guy...pay his way...have him pack for me...and he could feed ME in camp.          

By the way: Anyone who hasn't looked at the newest TiGoat stove would be well advised to do so. I think their stove called the WiFi is a phenomenal design and solves many stove problems inherent in ultralight woodstoves. I sold all my Kifaru stoves when the WiFi came out.

[Aggieland]

I use a Hammock for all my lower 48 hunts when packing in. If I'm not packing in then i'm usually in a Camper. So this would only be used for base camping or fly in, etc hunts. I guess if that is the case, I should go big or go home. Is their any reason to consider having a big TP like a 16 man built out of 500 condura if It cost the same as the lighter weight stuff?

[Montanawidower]

Kevin,

Of course you don't own stock.... You live in OH.   Last time I checked, there's not a lot of packers needed to drag a deer 200 yards.       .  And if you travel west, you'd be a fool to haul them out.  

But seriously, It's funny guys are so hung up on llama spit.  Let's set the record straight.   If you get spit on ....you are either afraid or you deserved it!    Truthfully, Llamas are the best judge of character I know.  

I packed horses for years before I made the switch.   I think horse packers are foolish.  So , I guess all things are relative.

But back to tents....I agree , unless you have 4 guys to haul gear.   Tipis and stoves are more of a packer, car or drop camp thing.

[Steve Chappell]

I'd give Llamas a try!  To hual my gear and test my character!  If they spit on me I do not know how I'd live with myself.

[Steve O]

This thread has been very informative AND entertaining. I used to hunt a 22,000 acre sheep ranch near Devils Tower in WY. The rancher used llamas to protect the sheep from the coyotes. We had one guy in the group who was deathly afraid of them...and EVERY llama on the ranch would chase any truck we were in and "attack" him any chance they had. I've never laughed so hard in my life. They knew when Jimmy was riding in the back. Llama spit is some of the most foul smelling nasty substance I've been near; but I am belly laughing just thinking about the old days    

[Homebru]

Originally posted by Kevin Dill:
Goats stink and are noisy. I refuse to use an alpaca or llama. Anything that spits at me when unhappy would get clobbered and used for camp meat.

Off topic but.....I don't care if goats stink.  They probably think the same of me BUT, a goat will eat your tipi if you don't watch him closely

 

Originally posted by Montanawidower:
But seriously, It's funny guys are so hung up on llama spit.  Let's set the record straight.   If you get spit on ....you are either afraid or you deserved it!    Truthfully, Llamas are the best judge of character I know.  

Llamas are awesome in the back country.  They eat what is available (you don't have to take in feed) and they're camelids so they don't need a lot of water.  They follow you wherever you'd like to go, just like the neighbors dog.  They don't like coyotes or bears or wolves.  They'll let you know if any are near your camp.  The only "liability" with llamas is that you have to move the around so they have food.

Now, back to your everyday friendly tipi discussion.
homebru

[Montanawidower]

Here's a little vid (from a few years back) of my eight man Kifaru in a Llama spot.  

 
 
This is eight miles in, on a dry ridge that is very exposed to wind.  The only water source is a mile away.   Because llamas only need water every 3-4 days... We had pole position on this herd for the weekend.  

Turn up the volume to max.... I'm whispering.  Funny you can hear my heart pounding.   a 340 bull will do that to a guy.  

[fujimo]

just like everyone- we all have our own quirks and idiosyncrasies. very personal likes and dislikes.
and why any purchase may be a compromise of sorts, or after we buy something we all "customize" it a bit- to suit us exactly.- but thats why i build all my own gear( obviously i still buy some gear) tents, packs , tree stands, bows etc etc.
i know not everyone has the resources or tools to do this- and also, most often it works out more expensive than just buying something, and living with a compromise . a few prototypes getting your design right- and you have already cruised past a retail value on something . but hopefully you get exactly what you are wanting!

back to the original point, i have followed this thread from the beginning, and looked at all the links, and products mentioned- and have to say, that for ME and MY intended use, i would still prefer the sawtooth, and maybe with one of those "goat"stoves.   :D  
cheers

[Kevin Dill]

To be fair, I should let guys know that a vast majority of my travel hunting is done in Alaska. I can't afford to take livestock with me and get all of us in the 100 or so miles from town. And then there are those annoying grizzlies and wolves looking for an easy snack 24/7. Speaking of...my family asked me why I like a floorless tipi for Alaska hunting. I told them mainly because if a bear gets inside while I'm gone and takes a crap (they always do) I can just move the tipi and 'I'm not taking any crap from a bear'.   :p  

I enjoyed that video posted above...good stuff for sure!

Sawtooth going on order next week. I think my next sewing project will be a sil-nylon windsock for my little campsite on the ridge.

[Aggieland]

Kevin are you serious about the bears in your tent?  Would enjoy sharing camp up there with you someday!

[Biathlonman]

Kevin, you're welcome to spend some time with my sawtooth if you would like before ordering. I believe I hunt in your neck of the woods.

Kelly Kettle is pretty good gear but the "Backcountry Boiler" is a better mousetrap.

[Steve B.]

I've had a kifaru 8-man for over 10 years and a couple of different stoves. I've used it in all terrains and situations.
I am not part of the cult following or care in anyway which one you end up buying.  But I have spent many years not only using my tipi but reading about the others and I'll share what I think.  FWIW.
First, I do not know about the lostandfound tipis.  If they do what someone here said then I'd definately consider them.
Second, I agree with almost everything Kevin Dill has said.  If you are usually going to be with 2 guys and gear, for several days, with a stove, and maybe in bad weather, etc. etc., Do not settle for anything smaller than an 8-man, period.  Just don't do it.  I actually now want a 12-man.
The kifaru tipi is made up of triangle sections that are sewn together.  Very strong.  Seam sealing is a non-issue.  I've never sealed mine after the first day and its perfect.  I have had my tipi in hurrican winds where the stakes were pulling out of the rocky ground and I had to pull the pole and lay rocks on the tipi to keep it from disappearing.  Before that it was insane inside my tipi and I'm so glad it was Kifaru.

If cost is a show stopper on the kifaru then I would definately go for the SO.  look carefully at their specific sizes compared to Kifaru.  They are not the same.  I'd get the SO 12-man.

If you are a serious user of the tipi, consider that the few hundred bucks over the period of many years won't be noticed.  A year after you buy a kifaru you'll be glad you did it.

In the end; one way or the other, you'll get what you paid for.

[Steve Chappell]

Steve B...you know as close as I have been looking at those two tipis I did not catch the foot print difference; so thanks for pointing that out...it is different! 8 man tipi - SO 15"10' diameter & 8'6" height (a round tipi) and Kifaru foot print 18' X 15' & 8'6" height which means it is not round.  Does anyone know the usable interior space of each of these tipis?  

My focus has been more on the specs of the materials, "bells & whistles" people indicate are nice to have and experience from those using them.  I have come away with the following...With the waterproof zippers a zipper pocket at the top is all that is need to prevent leakage...not a full storm flap. A lot of people seem to like a sod skirt and many that did not have them either installed them DIY or had one installed. And a means to vent appears to be valued.

As has been pointed out, there is a wide range of what people like and want...it’s a personal thing. For those of us about to venture into the tipi world, all we have to work from and ultimately decide what we must have in a tipi is from what we read and hear form current users...and the company people.  

I give far more credibility to those who use the product than a company person. That is why I ask the companies for references and reach out too those I find through various means that have some of the other brands to get their input.  

I have  found this tipi would is not shared by all friendly competitors...there is an ugly side.

[Steve B.]

Steve, I have to admit that after posting yesterday I went to SO website and checked out the tipis again.  They have changed, apparently.  I'm sure the heights of the tipis used to be different but it seems they are the same as the kifaru now...at least the 8 man is.  Also they have sewn panels.  Wonder why they changed?
There are enough SO tipis out there now that I'd think that if their material was not sufficient in strength that you would know about it by now.  So I might reconsider SO now.

The Kifaru oblong shape is nice because the longer distance is from zipper to zipper and that is the line where the stove sits.  So the extra space there helps.  But it is not a huge deal.
The sod skirt thing would come in handy at times for sure.  Most of the time,not so much.

The tipis get very hot inside when the sun shines, like a greenhouse.  Too hot sometimes.  When its cold outside that greenhouse affect is nice.  But the tipis really shine (no pun) when either the weather is inclimate or its cold and you have a stove to use with it.  

Good luck.

[Kevin Dill]

Venting my 8-man is quite simple. I simply unzip both doors a measured amount from the top (front and back) then place a short prop stick in each opening to improve air flow.

[John Havard]

As many have said, there are no perfect solutions.  Since the mid-70's I've been camping all over Alaska chasing game each autumn.  I did a bit of medium-serious climbing during my residency there as well.  Having used everything from a bit of plastic sheeting to mountaineering tents to a 16-man kifaru tipi with a titanium wood stove I have a few opinions based on experience.  When hunting in Alaska I also pitch a Hilleberg Keron 4GT with double poles as a life boat if things really go south.  I do that for a very good reason - tipis, especially large ones, will not stand up to the kind of ferocious winds that a true summit-quality mountaineering tent will.  Having to set up an emergency shelter in the dark during a wind storm with driving sleet and rain in 35 degree weather will make a believer out of anyone.

No shelter is perfect.  But if you're considering a tipi then I can add my support to Kifaru.  Full disclosure - I have zero experience or exposure to any other tipi brand.  Remember when considering tipi size that a liner (absolutely essential most everywhere) reduces the interior usable space.  So go larger than you might have originally thought.  Being able to stand up inside of a tipi more than one inch away from the center pole also drives one toward a larger size.  My experience with tipis is that you should divide the "man rating" by 4 in order to know how many folks with gear it will comfortably accommodate.

Being in a place where you might die if your shelter folds down around your ears makes a few hundred dollars difference between a "good" shelter and the "best" shelter seem like an extremely good bargain.  If you're not going to be camping in a place where your life depends on your shelter then don't worry (much) about what you buy and use.  If you're going to be where you're totally on your own, you can't get out, and it will be days waiting if bad things happen then don't scrimp.

Remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[Kevin Dill]

As a testimony to John's experience and advice given above: My partner and I were comfortably protected in a stand of spruce trees on the lee side of a river valley a couple years back. We awoke to a rattle of tarps and my tipi was flexing a bit...nothing bad...due to a fairly stiff night wind. This was unusual as we almost never get much wind in our camp. It didn't get any worse, but high in the tops of the trees we could hear the steady low roar of wind. What we had no way of knowing was what it was like up high. A huge weather system with high winds was sweeping in from western Alaska, and it was a monster. Airplanes grounded, trees down, etc. That same night John and his partners were dealing with the storm and an adventure they were thrust into. We heard about it later.

When daylight came, the high ridges were dusted with snow. The air was full of birch and aspen leaves flying like confetti hundreds of feet high. Clouds were racing across the landscape, and the steady low roar of wind could be heard far above us. We commented that it was nice to be camped low...but we had no idea how nice.

In 2013 we experienced prolonged cold and snow in our camp. One morning it was 7F and everything was snow-covered. Boots were frozen overnight, and the inside of my tipi was hoar-frosted 1/4" thick. We cranked the stove and got things warming...and the liner kept the frost-rain from soaking everything inside. My tipi wasn't a convenience on that hunt. We used it like you'd use an essential tool that you depend on. We were able to keep our clothing dried out and ourselves warm in some very nasty conditions. I recall thinking about how glad I was that I didn't have to crawl into a cold 2-man dome while dealing with snow, ice and debris.

It's one thing to be sitting comfortably in your chair and perusing the pluses/minuses of backcountry shelters. It's something entirely different to wake up and realize you're IN IT and you're absolutely depending on it to not fail or give you grief. Despite what you read, nothing is bomb-proof. Some are definitely stronger, tougher than others and built to survive. If failure is a very bad option, you'll likely buy a shelter based on solid reputation first. The bells and whistles won't mean a lot when it's roaring outside and cold precip is sliding down the sides.

[WLAF]

first time, first post

hope i am made to feel welcome and i will treat all with respect and professionalism

wyo.