Weight Up Front

[Bobtulowiecki]

I read a lot about the amount of weight guys shoot up front.  My question is, how much weight is too much weight?  I am currently shooting Byron Ferguson GT Heavy Hitters @ 29" with 50gr. brass inserts and 100gr. field tips/broadheads.  Without including nock and fletchings, I am at a total arrow weight of 556grs shooting out of a 53lbs. bow.  Arrow flies straight, no far left or right business or up down (from what I can see as a new shooter) and penetrates well into the tightly packed burlap target.Do I have "weight up front" envy reading about guys who are shooting 200 plus up front?Would there be a benefit to adding more  up front with my current set up or could it take away from arrow performance? Do you think our Native American brethren had these same discussions over arrow spines, kinetic energy, etc. around the camp fire (haha)!?

[Stump73]

Read Dr Ashbys reports here in the forums or watch some of his stuff on youtube.

[dbd870]

I've read Ashby's stuff as well and I was considering going heavier upfront, however I'm not taking anything larger than whitetail and I'm not so sure that 125-150gr up front isn't quite adequate. Were I hunting something larger then I would be more concerned with it.

[nineworlds9]

My personal minimum that I have set for myself is 175g up front, 50g insert / 125g head and generally around a 500-525g arrow depending on the shaft, but I also shoot up to 275-300g up front with some of my heavier broadheads for a 600-625g arrow depending on the shaft.  Both I would say are adequate.  Though it flies a bit slower the higher FOC/ 600+g combo however is easier to be accurate with at 20 yds or less.  Beyond 20 yds the trajectory is not as flat, but in a hunting situation I wouldn't be shooting much past 20 anyway.  

Your gpp sounds good.  That being said, additional FOC is good insurance on a marginal hit or rather on a hit at a less than ideal angle where perhaps you will hit bone or worry about the hide deflecting the arrow if for some reason your arrow doesn't hit clean or your head isn't quite sharp enough.  For most things like small game and whitetail I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with your arrow, but on something like hogs you might want more.

[old_goat2]

My opinion and it's just that, is that you might want a little more up front on those particular arrows, the heavier an arrow is, the heavier the tip has to be tip the scales so to speak to raise the FOC. Most important thing is an arrow that comes off the bow with clean flight. Shoot a broadhead, if you still have good arrow flight your probably good to go for deer etc.  If you add a heavier tip and it makes it out of tune then you will defeat your goal of better penereation and arrow flight.

[Bobaru]

I'm assuming you are using 400 spine arrows.  3 Rivers lists them as 13.5 gpi.  With that, and Stu Miller's calculator, I come up with 564 total grains, close to what you report.

I'm assuming that with 29" arrows, your draw is 28".  I also assume that the bow draw weight of 53# is 53@28".

With these assumptions, your arrow should be tuned quite well to the bow.

Having a tuned arrow is more important than either a heavy arrow or a high FOC arrow.  So, if you still want a higher FOC, you would have to get a stiffer arrow or maybe build out the strike plate.

Perhaps others can suggest different ways to increase FOC and still remained tuned.

Personally, I would hunt an arrow like that for deer, elk, or Kudu any day of the week - so long as I was certain that it is tuned.  It should go cleanly through any of those animals.

Others like either heavy or high FOC.

Shoot bare shafts to see if they fly with the fletched arrows.  If so, then shoot broadheads (with fletching) and target arrows to see if they fly the same.  If they all fly the same, you are well tuned.

[Rob DiStefano]

first and foremost, the idea is to strive for a well flying arrow in a decent gpp mass weight, with a sharp cut-on-contact broadhead.  the foc and added upfront weight stuff isn't a requirement.  tons of deer and other game have been routinely and efficiently harvested with a simple wood arrow and twin blade broadhead.

high, or even ultra high foc arrows aren't a panacea for making game kills, but can be a good thing for both penetration and arrow flight.  however, each of us needs to personally test the validity of such arrangements.  a high foc arrow that doesn't fly well ain't worth a hoot.

building a good hunting arrow with a cut-on-contact broadhead can be as simple or complicated as ya like.  i like simple - and effective.  

select an appropriately spine shaft material, and through testing build a hunting arrow in the 10gpp or higher mass weight range.  you can use a field point in the testing, but a follow up with a cut-on-contact broadhead is mandatory to check its flight characteristics.

shafts that take screw-in point adapters will allow for lots of front weight testing, which means carbon or aluminium shaft material.  carbons have a wide dynamic spine range (a good 15 pound variance) and can typically take a huge amount of upfront added weight without seriously effecting that dynamic spine.  

i like using glue-on broadheads so that i can change the adapter weight (i use a soft hot melt glue).  i keep a full array of adapter weights on hand for testing, from light aluminium to heavy steel.  inserts can be the supplied aluminium or varying weights of brass, i use both.

[Zradix]

...what Rob said

X..?  on the well tuned sharp tipped arrow trumps about everything.

Sounds like you're fairly sure your arrows are flying well.
If you want to be sure, check out/ search for paper tuning.

Your setup..if flying well...is just fine...at least for deer.
...not so sure I'd go for bear, elk, or buff with it....lol

[2bird]

For hunting Whitetails and down i have never had any problem with just a 125 grain head on a run of the mill arrow(400 grains [email protected]). A perfectly tuned arrow with sharp bh is everything...

I'm getting ready for a hog hunt so i'm going to bump up my weight in the front by 100 grains (225 up front)

I will speak for my self on this part. for 3D or any other type of shooting a heavy arrow has always been my #1 problem when it comes to equipment because after about 20 yards they drop like a rock. 350-400 grain arrows with 7-10% foc are perfect for target shooting, not suggesting that anyone hunt with those arrows. IMO a arrow that weighs 400 grains with 125 grain points is as light as i would go for hunting whitetails and down, anything larger 500 grains or up... i also believe when you start getting into the 600+ range your starting to limit your self, your trajectory is so extreme that you dont leave your self any wiggle room on yard estimation, at least for me...    

I would hunt pretty much anything with your set up, you have plenty of weight...

[KentuckyTJ]

Originally posted by nineworlds9:
My personal minimum that I have set for myself is 175g up front, 50g insert / 125g head and generally around a 500-525g arrow depending on the shaft, but I also shoot up to 275-300g up front with some of my heavier broadheads for a 600-625g arrow depending on the shaft.  Both I would say are adequate.  Though it flies a bit slower the higher FOC/ 600+g combo however is easier to be accurate with at 20 yds or less.  Beyond 20 yds the trajectory is not as flat, but in a hunting situation I wouldn't be shooting much past 20 anyway.  

Your gpp sounds good.  That being said, additional FOC is good insurance on a marginal hit or rather on a hit at a less than ideal angle where perhaps you will hit bone or worry about the hide deflecting the arrow if for some reason your arrow doesn't hit clean or your head isn't quite sharp enough.  For most things like small game and whitetail I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with your arrow, but on something like hogs you might want more.

Totally agree with everything Chuck has said here.  

[Orion]

Your set up is just fine.

Most folks think of higher FOC only in terms of increasing penetration, but according to most folks who do a lot of experimenting with high FOC, it also gives better arrow flight, or at least easier to tune arrow flight.

Given the heavy weight of your arrow shaft (13.5 gpi), increasing the point weight much might take the arrow out of tune.  If you want more FOC at the same arrow weight, would need to go to a physically lighter shaft to start with, say 7-9 gpi, and add the difference in shaft weight in point weight.  

You don't have to do any of this, of course.  Your arrows are fine as they are.  But, if you like to play around.......  

[Bobtulowiecki]

Guys- Thanks for the responses

[Bobtulowiecki]

I posted last week about recommendations for new broadheads and ended up getting some recommendations to add to my set up.  Ended up pulling the trigger on 165gr simmons Landsharks and field points to practice. This put my arrow weight at around 629gr with 215gr up front.  All I can say is wow.  I immediately noticed the flight of my arrow and how stable it became.  Gave a major thud upon impact as well.  Thank you to those who recommended bumping the weight up front. You guys rock

[tracker12]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
first and foremost, the idea is to strive for a well flying arrow in a decent gpp mass weight, with a sharp cut-on-contact broadhead.  the foc and added upfront weight stuff isn't a requirement.  tons of deer and other game have been routinely and efficiently harvested with a simple wood arrow and twin blade broadhead.

high, or even ultra high foc arrows aren't a panacea for making game kills, but can be a good thing for both penetration and arrow flight.  however, each of us needs to personally test the validity of such arrangements.  a high foc arrow that doesn't fly well ain't worth a hoot.

building a good hunting arrow with a cut-on-contact broadhead can be as simple or complicated as ya like.  i like simple - and effective.  

select an appropriately spine shaft material, and through testing build a hunting arrow in the 10gpp or higher mass weight range.  you can use a field point in the testing, but a follow up with a cut-on-contact broadhead is mandatory to check its flight characteristics.

shafts that take screw-in point adapters will allow for lots of front weight testing, which means carbon or aluminium shaft material.  carbons have a wide dynamic spine range (a good 15 pound variance) and can typically take a huge amount of upfront added weight without seriously effecting that dynamic spine.  

i like using glue-on broadheads so that i can change the adapter weight (i use a soft hot melt glue).  i keep a full array of adapter weights on hand for testing, from light aluminium to heavy steel.  inserts can be the supplied aluminium or varying weights of brass, i use both.

What he said.

[Sam McMichael]

For deer sized game, I don't think the discussion of foc and efoc is necessarily relevant. Most well tuned arrows with a sharp broad head will perform just fine. Extra weight and performance potential sure doesn't hurt, though. I have no experience with larger, tougher animals, but if a chance came up to hunt them, I would probably take a very great interest in up-front weight. After all, there is no such thing as overkill.