GT 1535 vs 3555 --- More Help Please!!!

[the rifleman]

I'm betting you will be happy with the 1535s.  In my short armed, low poundage, longbow experience it has been a more realistic option for me to stiffen a weak carbon arrow than to weaken a stiff carbon arrow.  Just remember---as others have said---be very careful when cutting carbons (from a health standpoint) as well as remembering that you can quickly ruin them and have too stiff of an arrow if you cut to much---ask me how I know?  I'd stress again to not even think about cutting them until you have shot for awhile and have developed some basic form.  Others have posted and I agree a final bareshaft showing slightly weak is not a bad thing as wraps and fletching stiffen a little and I am more apt to short draw in a contorted hunting situation than I am to overdraw.  Let us know how they work.

[Archer Dave]

Thanks. I think the 1535 Trads are 30" full length. If this is the case I am going to leave them full length as that is what I like.

It will be nice to have both the 1535 and 3555 to test side by side. However I think the 1535 is what I Will keep.

Dave

[ChuckC]

Dave,, at this point, don't even worry about the fletch.  Don't rip it off, just put the weight on up front and see how it shoots.  If it goes well, then it works.  Bare shafting would show that better, but at this point you got no bare shafts and reality being, you are throwing fletched shafts down range!

ChuckC

[sheepdogreno]

Glad you got a local business helping you out Dave! You will figure it out shortly. As long as you get close and fletch em up you will have some arrows that will fly just fine!

[DanielB89]

I always love reading about other peoples arrow set ups.  I do not know why, but I can not ever get arrows to tune how others do.  

I have 2 bows that are #51 and #53.  I can not get anything lighter than a 5575 to tune on them.  I always paper tune first.

On the #53 BW, i can't get anything less than a .340 to tune, but am currently using some .300 spined arrows with 300 grains up front.

[Archer Dave]

Alright guys I could use some more help please.

I am racking my head on this one.

I fletched up some of the 1535's with 4-4" Fletching straight offset and a 200gr fp. This seems to show along with bareshaft testing to be a good fit. The bareshaft flies straight and groups well with the fletched arrows at around 7 Yards.

However when I shoot them around 16 yards I have a hard time grouping them and hitting my target vs the 3555's @ 30.5" with a 200gr FP and 3-4" left Helicals.

However the 3555's show slight heavy spine when shooting bareshafted, but I seem to be able to group these better and hit my mark much more consistently at 16 yds.

So what gives? Is it the 3-4" helical fletching that is making the 3555's group better? Seems like the 4-4" straight offset would make more drag and thus be more stable but it doesn't seem so maybe?

Also how would the 1535 be spined right at 30.5" with a 200gr FP and the 3555's be spined close as well? Seems like the 200gr FP on the 1535's wouldn't work well.

So I do not know what to do? Keep both shafts and keep playing with them? I haven't shot the new 3555 Trads with fletching yet, just comparing the 3555 XT Hunters I have. Argggg!!!!

Thanks for the help.
Dave

[Archer Dave]

Any thoughts?

[Coach Jones]

Originally posted by Archer Dave:
Any thoughts?

Quit worrying about so much and just shoot.  I do the same thing.  You will drive yourself nuts.

[AZ_Longbow]

Fletcheing your arrows increase the spine, so if you are already over spined it ups that. Do you have a heavy wt point test kit? They have weights from 200 to 300gr.
They can realy help play with the weights to get that mix right.
I found a slighly weak bare shaft flys great once fletched. And I only use helicals with 3 feathers. It will helps keep a broad head from plaining to me. When I tune I start at 7 then 10 then 15 then 20 yards It helps me be sure its not me or bad form, and if a shoot wonky I move back closer. Im still new to it as well.
been tunning a hoyt buffalo 65lb at 28 inches with a 300gr point on a 75gr insert inside a easton fmj dangerous game 250 right at 31inches. So I feel ya brother.

[BigJim]

You have something else going on there. I haven't read the entire post, but will tell you that false readings are rampant.

I never worry about groupings. All I do is attempt to make the individual bare shaft do what I want it to do, and that is fly straight.

So many things can affect your reading:

Nock fit to tight
arrow hitting the sight window
arrow hitting the shelf
nock point too low
not having a second nock point when shooting three under
inconsistency
Dacron vs Fast Flight


The 1535 is the arrow you should be able to make fly the best unless you are drawing the bow farther than you think...this just doesn't happen too often. Most everyone has a shorter draw than what they think, plus a static release will essentially shorten it too.

re examine the above mentioned items to see if there are any thing you may have missed. Of course there are other things too.
bigjim...
I may not be a local to MN currently, but I have still spent more of my life in Stearns County, MN than I have everywhere else combined  

[sheepdogreno]

I found out really quick with carbons that at this point In my experience there was just too many variables to continue to hurt my brain trying to bareshaft perfectly. I ended up just getting close and shooting. I was getting so frustrated it wasn't fun for me haha find something that shoots well fletched up with the point weight you want and shoot it. Dont lose sleep over it and stress about it! Hopefully you get something close and can shoot shoot shoot! Best of luck

[DaveT1963]

My guess is that by using the lower spine (15/35) you are causing more paradox and recovery takes longer.  This will amplify release and shooting errors in my humble opinion.

any properly fletched shaft will stabilize and straight flying straight within a few yards of your bow.  To me a properly spined arrow is one that hits (left/right) where I am looking at.  My only test is do my broadhead tipped arrows and field point tipped arrows impact the same spot.

also, just as you can take just about any spined arrow and get it to quit porposing (up/down movement) by adjusting the nok.... you can also fine tune just about any closely spined arrow with shelf material adjustments. I use the same exact GT arrow from ALL my bows and they range from 45 - 70 pounds.  I have the bow set up to shoot that arrow by using different shelf/side plate material and manipulating how much material I use on the side plate (I use 2 sided carpet tape to build up the side plate as needed).  I learned this from Rick Welch and it works for me.  Are my arrows properly spined?  I don't know or care, they fly good, impact where I look, shoot same as my broadheads and are straight in the target from 10 yards to 50 yards.

[randy grider]

The 15/35's are without a doubt the closest to spine for that bow and draw length, I just prefer a little more weight for hunting penetration.My weighted 35/55's are around 520 grains, unweighted 15/35's showing 420 grains. My scales I fear are not real accurate, I think the 35/55's would be more than a 100 grains heavier, as I used a 100 grain insert... Not sure what the aluminum inserts weigh. If anyone has accurate scales id like to know all these weights, aluminum inserts, 15/35 and 35/55 unweighted and full length with nocks, than maybe I could calibrate my scales. They are the old martin archery spring scales. I have taken deer with unweighted and weighted shafts, and the extra 100 grains of the brass insert always makes a good showing, plus quiets the bow, which is another plus. I guess it all boils down to if you want to shoot game at 20 yards, where the drop is slight, or shoot targets at 50 yards, where the noticed drop is significant. Im more about hunting.

[Bladepeek]

Randy grider, not to steal the post, but you can get a very inexpensive set of test weights from a reloading supply source. Mine has 1, 2, 5, 10, 50 and 100 gr weights for my reloading scale that I use to check it.

It takes some digging sometimes, but just about all the arrow manufacturers have insert and nock weight info on their web sites. 3 Rivers also lists a lot more insert and nock weights on its web site than it does in the printed catalog.

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by Coach Jones:
 

Originally posted by Archer Dave:
Any thoughts?

Quit worrying about so much and just shoot.  I do the same thing.  You will drive yourself nuts. [/b]

Haha, yep I do this with everything, and yes I do often drive myself nuts.  :D

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by AZ_Longbow:
Fletcheing your arrows increase the spine, so if you are already over spined it ups that. Do you have a heavy wt point test kit? They have weights from 200 to 300gr.
They can realy help play with the weights to get that mix right.
I found a slighly weak bare shaft flys great once fletched. And I only use helicals with 3 feathers. It will helps keep a broad head from plaining to me. When I tune I start at 7 then 10 then 15 then 20 yards It helps me be sure its not me or bad form, and if a shoot wonky I move back closer. Im still new to it as well.
been tunning a hoyt buffalo 65lb at 28 inches with a 300gr point on a 75gr insert inside a easton fmj dangerous game 250 right at 31inches. So I feel ya brother.

Thanks. I do not have a test kit. I should have bought one, but alas here I am without. Good luck with your tuning.

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by BigJim:
You have something else going on there. I haven't read the entire post, but will tell you that false readings are rampant.

Seems that there is something funny, just haven't been able to pinpoint it.
 

I never worry about groupings. All I do is attempt to make the individual bare shaft do what I want it to do, and that is fly straight.

The bareshaft 1535's with the 200gr FP fly well and hit close to the same as the fletched ones. The thing though is that when I get out further, say past 15 yds, my accuracy goes to pot. I can shoot these at a target and miss the mark by 6-8 inches but then shoot the 3555's cut to 30.5" and using a 200gr FP and hit what I am aiming at. This perplexes me as the 1535's show they should be better when bareshaft testing.
 

So many things can affect your reading:

Nock fit to tight

Mine are pretty tight. Why would this just effect the 1535's though?
 

arrow hitting the sight window

Do you mean the vertical part by the shelf? The side plate does seem to be getting gouged a bit.
 

arrow hitting the shelf

Doesn't the arrow always hit the shelf as it rides on the shelf? Or are you talking about the nock point being to low causing the back of the arrow to bump it?
 

nock point too low

I am about 1/2" High right now. Bear recommends 1/8" for this bow.
 

not having a second nock point when shooting three under

I shoot mostly split, but have been playing with using the nock point below the arrow, as this was how I was shown many years ago and having it above feels weird. Could this affect things?
 

inconsistency

Probably,  :D  but why would the 3555's be more accurate, despite being over spined? That is where I am confused. I shoot three of each at the same time and there is a noticeable difference.
 

Dacron vs Fast Flight

B50, no fast flight for the Grizzly


 

The 1535 is the arrow you should be able to make fly the best unless you are drawing the bow farther than you think...this just doesn't happen too often. Most everyone has a shorter draw than what they think, plus a static release will essentially shorten it too.

I think I am typically around 28.5", maybe a bit less when I am tired.

 

re examine the above mentioned items to see if there are any thing you may have missed. Of course there are other things too.
bigjim...
I may not be a local to MN currently, but I have still spent more of my life in Stearns County, MN than I have everywhere else combined    

Thanks for your insight. I will keep playing around and see what I can figure out. It is going o be cold the next few days so I don't think I will be out shooting much as Monday my fingers were numb after just a few minutes.  

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by sheepdogreno:
I found out really quick with carbons that at this point In my experience there was just too many variables to continue to hurt my brain trying to bareshaft perfectly. I ended up just getting close and shooting. I was getting so frustrated it wasn't fun for me haha find something that shoots well fletched up with the point weight you want and shoot it. Dont lose sleep over it and stress about it! Hopefully you get something close and can shoot shoot shoot! Best of luck

Thanks. Funny thing was is that this is the first time shooting carbon and I went that way this time vs wood was because I thought they would be easier to tune. In the past when I was into primitve archery, I just cut shoots like dogwood and straightened them close and never worried about spine or much else. They always seemed to shoot fine though. Maybe I should have gone with woods.  

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by DaveT1963:
My guess is that by using the lower spine (15/35) you are causing more paradox and recovery takes longer.  This will amplify release and shooting errors in my humble opinion.

any properly fletched shaft will stabilize and straight flying straight within a few yards of your bow.  To me a properly spined arrow is one that hits (left/right) where I am looking at.  My only test is do my broadhead tipped arrows and field point tipped arrows impact the same spot.

also, just as you can take just about any spined arrow and get it to quit porposing (up/down movement) by adjusting the nok.... you can also fine tune just about any closely spined arrow with shelf material adjustments. I use the same exact GT arrow from ALL my bows and they range from 45 - 70 pounds.  I have the bow set up to shoot that arrow by using different shelf/side plate material and manipulating how much material I use on the side plate (I use 2 sided carpet tape to build up the side plate as needed).  I learned this from Rick Welch and it works for me.  Are my arrows properly spined?  I don't know or care, they fly good, impact where I look, shoot same as my broadheads and are straight in the target from 10 yards to 50 yards.

Thanks. I do notice that they feel different when I shoot them. Kind of like there is more give or something where as the 3555's seem to zip off faster. Maybe I need a 145gr or 175gr FP for better results with the 1535's.

[Archer Dave]

Originally posted by randy grider:
The 15/35's are without a doubt the closest to spine for that bow and draw length, I just prefer a little more weight for hunting penetration.My weighted 35/55's are around 520 grains, unweighted 15/35's showing 420 grains. My scales I fear are not real accurate, I think the 35/55's would be more than a 100 grains heavier, as I used a 100 grain insert... Not sure what the aluminum inserts weigh. If anyone has accurate scales id like to know all these weights, aluminum inserts, 15/35 and 35/55 unweighted and full length with nocks, than maybe I could calibrate my scales. They are the old martin archery spring scales. I have taken deer with unweighted and weighted shafts, and the extra 100 grains of the brass insert always makes a good showing, plus quiets the bow, which is another plus. I guess it all boils down to if you want to shoot game at 20 yards, where the drop is slight, or shoot targets at 50 yards, where the noticed drop is significant. Im more about hunting.

Thanks. I want to be able to do both really. I want to be able to hunt with my bow, but hunting is a small part of shooting for me. I had thought about having to arrow set ups, one for year round shooting(lighter), and one for hunting(heavier). However this would probably screw me up as I would prefer to get one arrow that shoots well and use it for everything so that it hits where I expect it to.

I can tell you that my 1535 GT Trad full length with factory nock, insert weighs 266 + or - about 1/10th of a grain.

Using the same shaft with 4-4" flecthing, and a 200gr FP weights 482.5grs.

These weights are derived on my electronic reloading scale which is very accurate.

Dave