Amazing the difference of a few yards

[JDow3]

Good afternoon brothers of the bow!

Been doing a lot of backyard shooting the last several weeks.  I ended up crafting my own woodies and got them pretty well tuned in with the bareshaft method.  

When I started with Trad at the end of last summer, I never imagined it would be so much more difficult than compound shooting or would be so much more enjoyable!  I was trying to rush it and get good enough for fall deer season and quickly realized that it wasn't gonna happen.  So, since the beginning of January I've just been focusing on getting a good comfortable and repeatable form that works and feels naturally.  I've just about got that down where I don't feel like I'm having to tweak all the time.  I'm shooting instinctively with split fingers.  I tried 3 under, it's just not for me.  I tried gap, it's just not for me.  No judgement, just doesn't feel right.  

I started shooting at 5 yards until I was consistently getting good groups.  Then I moved back to 10 yards...wash, rinse, repeat.  

I recently moved back to 15 yards and the spread wasn't much different than 10 yards and I was grouping pretty consistently but not quite where I want to be.  Today, curiosity got the best of me and I stepped back to 18 yards.  Shot 20 arrows and 17 of them were at least within the pie plate.  I got a little more adventurous and decided, what the heck, I'll go to 20 yards.  At 20 yards, I missed the target (rinehart 18:1) 9 out of 10 times.  What the heck!!  

My first miss was definitely form related. The arrow just missed the target to the left.  Every other miss was high.  Some a little high, some a lot.  They were typically on line or close to my little spot I was aiming at but for the life of me I couldn't get the arrow to come down.  I also broke one of my woodies    :(  

Can 2 yards really make that much of a difference?

I figured incrementally stepping back would prevent this.  Maybe I was tired or cocky?  Just curious if others had the same experience when they were starting out and moving back in distance.  I was shooting my compound with fist sized groups at 50 consistently.  I'm not looking for that.  20-25 yards maximum range is good for me.  I've never killed a deer or squirrel with a bow beyond 20 yards and that was just one time.  All others have been under 15.  

Is it more of a mental thing or with shooting instinctively, does it just take time to train your eye?  

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.  Here's how I shot today at 15 yards.  This was my best group but I pulled off several that were close to this today.  Not quite where I want to be but getting better.  My point of aim is the little black spot to the bottom left of the center circle.  

 

[kat]

2 yards is not going to make a difference physically.  It is mostly a mental thing.

That being said, your groups will almost always open up as you back up, but not for a 2 yard difference.

Practice is the cure. Keep at it.    

[Friend]

Would highly suspect that there are numerous traditional archers from the Cloverdale area that could guide you in cutting to the chase.

Some quality one on one time with a competent archer of which you can identify with may have you making significant strides in short order.

[Butch Speer]

J,
That's not a group to be ashamed of. I believe we let our minds play games with us. You're doing fine.

[njloco]

I'm glad you practice but did you practice any blind/blank bale shooting ?

Usually as one gets further away from the target and they have trouble hitting the target it would mean that their form is suffering because they have to think about it, which makes one miss the target because you can't do two things at once.

[wingnut]

A week or so ago I was out with Henry my 4 yr old grandson and he was shooting. He wasn't doing very well the first few ends. I asked what was wrong and he said he was too far.  I said move up and he moved up 6".  He shot very well from then on.

It's in your head.

Mike

[Kopper1013]

I personally found that 17-20 is where I can start to fall apart but that's because that's the range where I start having trouble focusing on my spot. If I focus on focusing my groups come back together.

[reddogge]

A word of caution though. Shooting groups at those short yardages below 20 yards you run the risk of damaging arrows. After a while it becomes expensive and irksome. It may be safer to put 4 small dots on the target and shoot one arrow at each.

[katman]

I agree with Mike and Kat, keep at it until the brain gets programmed.

[JDow3]

Thank you all who responded. I love this forum. Such a great group of folks who are knowledgable and encouraging.

So after reading the responses I went back out to the tree at 20 yards. 12 arrows, 12 target hits. Spread was wide, I was all over the place but no misses.

It's a mental thing and most likely some errors in my form.

Butch - Thanks for the encouraging words on my grouping.

Redoggee - I had to do that with my compound. Looking forward to the day I have to do that with my longbow:D

njloco- I'm not familiar with blind/blank bale shooting. I'll be googling that after finishing this.

Friend - I think that's some sage advice.  I need to reach out to some of the archery clubs around here.

Thanks again fellas!

[maineac]

Blind bale is shooting at a large close target focusing on just form.  You will probably be better off hitting the search button at the top of the page under the new topic and poll buttons.  For me, 15 to 18 yds are my sweet range.  Yet I constantly surprise myself when stump shooting and stretching my range. Over focus on form and over thinking the shot and range are my undoing. focus is huge, but so is confidence. Trust yourself and enjoy!

[KSdan]

Though you are well on your way and will be improving all the time, I am going to venture I can tell you a part of the issue:  The Target.  As you get farther away-using no sighting system- it gets harder to focus on the smaller spot.  This is especially noticeable with multiple spot targets. For the kick: Try shooting a target- say a fully dark target- with only one small white dot on it.  You could even do this at night with your Rhinehart, just focus a small flashlight beam onto it or even a candle flame.  You may be surprised how well you do.    

After 25+ years of trad- I am convinced (and I will speak for "me") that most of "my" troubles beyond 18 yds (though I actually have good days at 40 yds- just not consistent day to day) is NOT the form or equipment. My problem is the actual "ability" on a given day to focus on that small button or spot. Some of this has to do with eyesight (which weakens as I get older).  Some is just an ability to focus/concentrate (which changes with the stresses of life, certain days, etc).  Some folks really are just better/more-gifted at that needed focus.  I have even noticed some of the really good shooters do not wear glasses!  

My 2C
Dan

[Orion]

JD:  Since you haven't practiced at 20 yards, your brain doesn't have a good sight picture yet.  That's one of the reasons for the up down misses.  Brain doesn't know yet exactly where to hold at that distance That's also why it's a good idea to practice at different ranges.  

Longer shot distances also amplify form problems.  That's why the groups open up.

Rome wasn't built in a day and most of us don't become good shots in a day, a week, a few months, even a few years.  Keep at it and your shooting will continue to improve. Good luck.

[Tradcat]

It must be déjà vu. 17 yards and under is my effective range !! Big difference beyond that distance because I find it hard to focus on a spot due to bad eyesight. I do shoot beyond that at 3D shoots but realize that 17 yards and under is my effective hunting range

[Whitetailarcher]

I can only speak for myself, but the farther back I go the more I want to look (watch the arrow. A little head or arm moment at distance will always cause me to miss.  I definitely feel your pain.  Some days are great others not so much.  It may still be too cold where you live - I think snow would really mess with my shot.

[JDow3]

Originally posted by KSdan:
Though you are well on your way and will be improving all the time, I am going to venture I can tell you a part of the issue:  The Target.  As you get farther away-using no sighting system- it gets harder to focus on the smaller spot.  This is especially noticeable with multiple spot targets. For the kick: Try shooting a target- say a fully dark target- with only one small white dot on it.  You could even do this at night with your Rhinehart, just focus a small flashlight beam onto it or even a candle flame.  You may be surprised how well you do.    

After 25+ years of trad- I am convinced (and I will speak for "me") that most of "my" troubles beyond 18 yds (though I actually have good days at 40 yds- just not consistent day to day) is NOT the form or equipment. My problem is the actual "ability" on a given day to focus on that small button or spot. Some of this has to do with eyesight (which weakens as I get older).  Some is just an ability to focus/concentrate (which changes with the stresses of life, certain days, etc).  Some folks really are just better/more-gifted at that needed focus.  I have even noticed some of the really good shooters do not wear glasses!  

My 2C
Dan

Interesting observation Dan. I just recently switched the target to a fresh one for this very reason. There were so many little holes it was hard to focus. I am going to give that a try. The block target it's sitting on top of is pretty well destroyed. It's a broadhead only target. I bet I can rig it on one side to be all black and a small white dot.  Good excuse to try them new Eskimos I just picked up.

Thanks for the tip!

[JDow3]

Originally posted by Whitetailarcher:
I can only speak for myself, but the farther back I go the more I want to look (watch the arrow. A little head or arm moment at distance will always cause me to miss.  I definitely feel your pain.  Some days are great others not so much.  It may still be too cold where you live - I think snow would really mess with my shot.

It was actually very pleasant today. It was about 19 degrees, no wind, sun shining and I wore jeans, tee shirt, light jacket and a beanie. I could've stayed out all day.

But I do love Louisiana. I have a buddy who lives in New Orleans (k pauls is one of my fav restaurants in the US) and my wife has a friend from high school who moved down near Lake Charles with her husband. It's really a sportsman paradise down there with all the fishing and hunting.

[PaulDeadringer29]

Turn that bottom target around. Lee and Tiffany looking directly at you is messing with you, lol.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Originally posted by kat:
2 yards is not going to make a difference physically.  It is mostly a mental thing.

That being said, your groups will almost always open up as you back up, but not for a 2 yard difference.

Practice is the cure. Keep at it.      

Yep, when I think about the difference, my groups open up.

Keep at it and have fun.

[Wabasis]

A lot of times when I go out to shoot I shoot so many arrows that after a while I start getting some fliers that stray even farther off target because the muscles are getting a little tired and my form is suffering. It's so hard to stop shooting though.