If Your Were Going to Buy a Hill Style Right Now...Which One Would You Pick?

[Nuctech]

I would look at a bow from Mcbroom Custom Bows. They look really well made and they are a sponsor. Price seems pretty agreeable to. Gabe

[bsv]

Lets not forget TwoTracks ECHO,very sweet bows. Burt

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Sixby:
Probably would get a Mohawk or if Bigfoot has his made yet one of those.

God bless, Steve

a mohawk isn't a "hill style" longbow (afl, or american flat longbow) - it's a mild r/d hybrid that braces to a "D" shape.

[Rob DiStefano]

Semantic nomenclature ...

The "Hill Style" longbow is an AFL - American Flat Longbow.  

The "Flat" part means that although it contains many of the characteristics of the English longbow (ELB), it's missing the ELB's rounded belly, hence both an AFL's back and belly are flat.  

The AFL limbs are either dead straight, or back set (reflex) or belly set ("string follow").  

If a longbow combines back and belly set (r/d, or reflex/deflex), it's no longer a "Hill Style" AFL, it's now some flavor of a hybrid r/d longbow.

If a braced longbow has that classic AFL "D" shape, you may be surprised when it's unbraced and you see that the limbs are mildly snaked.  Yup, ain't an AFL, it's longbow hybrid r/d.      

Hope this helps a bit.      

[awbowman]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

Originally posted by Sixby:
Probably would get a Mohawk or if Bigfoot has his made yet one of those.

God bless, Steve

a mohawk isn't a "hill style" longbow (afl, or american flat longbow) - it's a mild r/d hybrid that braces to a "D" shape. [/b]

Best kind

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by awbowman:
 

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
   

Originally posted by Sixby:
Probably would get a Mohawk or if Bigfoot has his made yet one of those.

God bless, Steve

a mohawk isn't a "hill style" longbow (afl, or american flat longbow) - it's a mild r/d hybrid that braces to a "D" shape. [/b]

Best kind [/b]

yep, but it ain't an AFL - yer mixing apples 'n' oranges.  

[Bowhunter4life]

I have one, it's a Hill Custom...

 
 
 
 

Six lams of Bamboo for the core, clear glass on the belly, black glass on the back with Rattlesnakes, Macassar riser with checkering.  68", and in the mid 80#'s at my draw.  I've owned a few over the years when the "Hill Bug" bites, but never enjoyed shooting them.  This one is a pleasure to shoot, and doesn't beat me up like the others did...  I don't think I'll be dropping my MOABs or my Widow curves, but this one will do nicely when that darn "Hill Bug" bites!

[V I Archer]

That ad on the back of TBM with the green glass Great Northern causes me to pause every time.

[David Mitchell]

You mean like this?  My Northern Mist Shelton.  I love colored glass.  It is so much more like the old bows I grew up on. Steve Turay and Jerry Brumm had a full run of green glass made just for their bows--they call it great northern mist green.

   

[soap creek]

There's a lot of good bowyers out there. I've own some bows by bowyers who have been receiving a lot of praise here on this site and rightly so. For me my favorite so far is my HH Redman. Its not the fastest, or the prettiest, but I like it the most. Very little hand shock, smooth drawing, just a pleasure to shoot. Its 68in. backset design, to me its as smooth as any I've shot. Once in a while you find that one bow that fits you just right, mine is the Redman.

[SquareHead]

Toelke Super D for me!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by SquareHead:
Toelke Super D for me!

hmmmm.  i've only seen some unbraced images of that bow and it sure does looks like the mildest of r/d designs, not a true AFL.

[Sixby]

Rob, Please define AFL. and also tell us what constitutes a true Hill style bow. Also can a longer riser or a foreward riser be a Hill style? The only sure thing I know is that they can have backset or be straight or be string follow. Other than that I plead long term ignorance. Also can that backset have any curve over the full length of the limb or does it have to be a straight limb? Stuff like that. I am assuming (dangerous to do) that the unstrung profile is as important as the strung profile.

 Thanks and God bless, Steve

[neargeezer]

Hope you can see it on this picture of my Super D. The yellow is my 4' level lined up over the center lam of the bow. The brown line is a walnut lam that is between the bamboo lams.

Anyway the straight edge of level shows that the Super D only has reflex and is straight in the riser area. I think the overlays on the riser give the illusion of deflex in riser. I have been wanting to do this for a while just to satisfy my own curiosity.

So conclusion, the Super D is a true ASL or AFL, whichever you prefer, and is a great one at that!
 

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Sixby:
Rob, Please define AFL. and also tell us what constitutes a true Hill style bow.

i did that on the previous page 3 of this thread, next to last post.

Also can a longer riser or a foreward riser be a Hill style?

imo, yes.

The only sure thing I know is that they can have backset or be straight or be string follow.

yup!

Other than that I plead long term ignorance. Also can that backset have any curve over the full length of the limb or does it have to be a straight limb? Stuff like that. I am assuming (dangerous to do) that the unstrung profile is as important as the strung profile.

it's all about the unbraced profile.  if you see both limb reflex and deflex in the riser, then it's a hybrid longbow with some amount of r/d to both the limbs and riser.  it's usually pretty easy to spot, but it must be on an unbraced bow.  lotsa mild r/d longbows will brace to that classic "D" shape but are clearly not AFL's.  i have one, it's a mohawk sparrowhawk - not an AFL.  my 7 lakes longbow is a true AFL, with only some string follow.  

in most instances, adding in r/d makes for faster arrow speed.  the trade off can be "stability", of which a true AFL usually has in spades.

back a goodly while, one clever pair of bowyers created a longbow that braced just like a classic "D" shaped ELB or AFL, but when unbraced the geometry of limbs and riser clearly showed visible r/d.  this was the 21st century "edge" and it was used several times to win the IFAA longbow world championships, which only allows ELB or AFL type longbows.  

the "edge" clearly was a much faster longbow, thanx to that built in r/d.  so why was this ringer longbow allowed to compete?  

the foolish IFAA allowed it because their rules stated that any BRACED longbow that didn't show "flip at the tips" (the kind of recurve like flip that aggressive r/d longbow shows) was allowed in their tournament.  when a straight edge was moved around the braced limbs, and no light showed 'tween the bottom of the straight edge and the back of the limbs, then that bow was considered a "true longbow in the ELB or AFL style" and allowed to be used in their tournament.  

the "edge" passed with no problem.  amazing how a bit of smart bowyer design and limb engineering can be allowed allowed by the IFAA to cheat at their true longbow tournament.  a travesty on many levels and a blight on world trad tournament archery.

hope some of this helps a bit!            

 Thanks and God bless, Steve

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by neargeezer:
[QB] Hope you can see it on this picture of my Super D. The yellow is my 4' level lined up over the center lam of the bow. The brown line is a walnut lam that is between the bamboo lams.

Anyway the straight edge of level shows that the Super D only has reflex and is straight in the riser area. I think the overlays on the riser give the illusion of deflex in riser. I have been wanting to do this for a while just to satisfy my own curiosity.

So conclusion, the Super D is a true ASL or AFL, whichever you prefer, and is a great one at that!

you got it, an AFL for sure.  

i have no clue as to what "ASL" means ... someone school me, please.

[Vesty]

Northern Mist Classic. Steve is putting one together for me in the next few months. 66"51#@27. Bamboo core with brown fiberglas on back and chocolate brown glass on belly. Shedua riser. He has redesigned his riser and calls it "old school". It has a more defined radius into the fades. Very sweet.

[neargeezer]

Hey Rob, American Semi Longbow. I know a lot of the "Hill Guys" use that term and it is in Howard Hills "Hunting the Hard Way". I think it was meant to differ it from English Longbow that had the D limb profile, but I am certainly no expert.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by neargeezer:
Hey Rob, American Semi Longbow. I know a lot of the "Hill Guys" use that term and it is in Howard Hills "Hunting the Hard Way". I think it was meant to differ it from English Longbow that had the D limb profile, but I am certainly no expert.

ah so, thanx!  it's still an AFL to me.   :D

[Sixby]

Rob I am asking these questions because I build a bow called the Frontier which has a long riser foreward riser but straight string follow limbs. The riser is 20 inches. from fade to fade . Is there any reason that this bow would not be considered a Hill style bow?

Thanks and God bless, Steve