466 gr Arrow

[Jake Scott]

Yes, us can get pretty complicated, but most of it we all learned in high school.  Have you read the ashby reports, Landon.  I would highly suggest it.  There is a whole forum on here dedicated to it.  Of course very few of us are shooting asiatic water buffalo with our bows, but there is a ton of good information.

Jake

[ChuckC]

VA.  I am heading south in a week armed with a new 56# bow Hill style and some arrows that end up at 475 grains.  

Not what I was looking for, but I had a handful of these on the shelf and they bare shafted perfectly at that configuration.  The other arrows I have were way too heavily spined for this bow, according to bare shaft testing.

These fly great, even at big yardage and they are gonna get me some meat, no doubt about it.

I will keep the shots close for as near perfection as I can get.
ChuckC

[dbd870]

My arrows weigh 462gr and I'm shooting 46#, not that different from you

[ChuckC]

Ya know. .  we all read everything we can, and there is great information out there.  Read it and digest it.  

But really, I am not shooting golf balls or ping pong balls.  I am shooting a pointed stick, with a very sharp point.  Pretty sure I can push it thru a deer's chest by hand.

We need to try to do the best we can, but really, you don't need 1000 grain arrows for deer.  Now. . They sure won't hinder anything, but you don't need them.  

What you need is to shoot close at a good, well chosen target, and hit it.
ChuckC

[VA Elite]

Yeh Chuck I have read that, and that is some really in depth research. But I think you are on point with sharp heads and close shots.

[Msbow]

I think everyone would agree that you can push an arrow with a dull blade through tissue by hand. Super easy with a sharp broadhead, but it doesn't matter how sharp that head is if your trying to push it through a scapula, femur, rib, or any other bone you choose. Arrow weight, draw weight and broadhead design is what gets it through that bone not how sharp the broadhead is. In a perfect world all of our arrows would slide right between both ribs missing all bones completely. It's not often when bowhunting that everything works perfectly when shooting at animals with traditional equipment. If it was most of us would get bored real quick, I know I would

[ChuckC]

Yes but I have had (heavy, 600 plus grain) arrows go thru bone and not go thru bone. I don't take shots that would normally put the scapula in the way and the femur is in the rear end (yup, I even broke two of those in my day). Oh, and sharp matters a lot in penetration, even thru bone.

There is a line somewhere, it moves, but if you really want to make sure nothing goes wrong, you need a big heavy caliber rifle.  

I myself (I can't speak for anybody else) want to use something that works very well under normal conditions.  I want something that will go thru both sides of the chest under normal conditions.  

I am not going to beef up and use 80+ pound bows and 1,000 grain arrows just in case I shoot the deer in the butt.  I am not gonna use a 4" wide, six blade broadhead just in case I shoot the critter in the guts.  I just choose to control the entire scenario better, and to learn how to do the "after the shot" stuff better.  

As I get older and more experienced, I find it quite doable most times.  I also find that I pass on some shots that I would have jumped at long ago.  

I really personally dislike the statement "I had to take that shot, it was the only shot he gave me".  Saw and heard that on a video by some famous guy and I remember it to this day.

ChuckC

[M60gunner]

I have been told here by those in the know 460 grain arrow from a 45# bow is more than enough for deer. I also understand most folks here use a tree stand so shots are going to be close. As for getting the "best" shot at that animal I totally agree. I get the impression sometimes reading threads from various sites killing the most critters means more than the hunt.

[Longbow58]

So what momentum numbers are we looking for to hunt deer? Is there any charts out there like they have for KE. Just curious. My arrows weigh 526gr. 30.5" GT 3555 175gr. Zwickey Delta 50gr. brass insert out of a 50# longbow.

[VA Elite]

stu's calculator says I get .39 Momentum..

[Msbow]

Chuckc there are a many things that can go wrong during a shot at an animal even in a perfect situation. I'm not saying you need a heavy arrow so you can shoot deer at any angle or whatever the case maybe.
 I like a heavier arrow just incase my release is off or string hits something the deer moves at the moment I shoot the list goes on and on of what can happen during a shot.
Everything being equal the heavier arrow WILL penetrate deeper even if it's very little. And that little bit could mean the difference in recovering an animal or not.
You are right a sharp head is a very critical part of it, but you take a very sharp blade like a Magnus drive it into bone and the tip fails, like I've had them do many times. A dull tanto tip single bevel head WILL out perform that sharp broken Magnus in bone, because that tip is designed not to break or fold over on bone contact, wether it's cutting edges are dull or not. I am NOT saying it's ok to hunt with a dull head!!

[njloco]

I would guess, and it's only a guess, that more deer have been killed with hunting arrows in the 8.5 to 10 gr weight class than heavier efoc arrows.

[Msbow]

Njloco, ide say it's been a whole lot more deer killed with 8 to 10 gr very low efoc than heavy arrows with high efoc. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It gets the job done. A sharpened stick out of a 35# self bow will get the job done also, a field tipped arrow with a very well placed shot will get the job done. Why even use broadheads when sharp sticks field tips and stones will work.
Theres things we can do as hunters to get it done cleaner, quicker, and kill more efficiently. That's why I shoot solid well built broadheads a heavier arrow and a 50# bow instead of 35#'s

[VA Elite]

funny thing is, according to stu's, I can go from 466 to 620 gr and only pick up 1 lb of KE..doesn't tell me MOM. I guess if I wanted more umph..I would have to shoot a heavier bow, but I don't think I will be doing that any time soon.

[Msbow]

Longbow58, to figure momentum you really need to know your arrow speed which is kinda hard to do without a chrono, but you can go to archerycalculator.com and use their bow arrow speed calculator to estimate your arrow speed then take those numbers and use their momentum calculator

[AZ_Longbow]

Its all a trade off. Speed vs weight, all my tradbows like to eat 9.5 to 12.5 GOP. Less than that and they get loud and jumpy. I like a heavy foc after seeing my penitratuon with the same bow and arrow weights. A few extra inches in a block target with the heavy foc arrow. My attempts at light arrows shot flatter though. So you just need to find the combo that you feel confident in.

[Taiga Recurve]

Zwickey No Mercy with 125 grain adaptor=250 grains up front on a GT55-75 with 3 grains per inch weight tube shot out of my 54# Holm-made Osprey long bow does the trick.

[ChuckC]

VA  check out Pat B's thread "light bows".
ChuckC

[VA Elite]

I saw that, that was some crazy penetration.

[Longbow58]

Msbow, I will go to my club and run my arrows through the chrono and get my speed. Then I take I can go to the website you posted to get my arrow momentum?