Anchor point and "zero" as affected by Split finger vs three under...

[archer66]

This is an offshoot of the thread on Split finger vs three under.

By the way...before I start please send me a private message if my starting new threads for stuff like this rather than just asking my question in the original thread is considered bad form on this site.  Some forums like it some don't.

Anyway...my question.  Someone on the split finger versus 3 under thread mentioned that they shoot accurately using the 3 under method out to 20 yards then start degrading due to unconscious gapping etc.  Can someone please clarify for me how that works....and also clarify for me the affect the two styles have in general on instinctive vs gap shooting?


Also...do split finger shooters anchor differently than 3 under shooters?  For instance as a three under shooter I anchor my pointer finger at the corner of my mouth.  If I were a split finger shooter would I still anchor with my pointer finger at the corner of my mouth or should I change that and anchor my index finger there?  If I shoot split and anchor my pointer finger at the corner of my mouth my nock will start lower than if I anchor with my index finger at the corner of my mouth.  Obviously that changes the angle of the arrow as it's sitting on the bow just before release.  How does that relate to my "zero"....seems to me the closer the nock is to my eye the more likely I am to naturally shoot where I'm looking.  Am I overthinking this?

Obviously I'm just a shooter who needs to read up.

[reddogge]

Everyone is different and no set rule. I shoot split and anchor with middle finger near corner of mouth so your arrow and mine are nearly in the same spot and our gaps are similar. My arrow is sitting between my nose and upper lip.

I shoot a gap based system where the gap puts me in the ball park and my instincts take over from there. Hard to describe.

With my longer arrows my point on distance is 35 yards which is manageable for 3-D and hunting. I gap over the target past 35 yards. For fun I like to shoot longer targets out to 50 yards and beyond. I also shoot flying targets so this system works for me. BTW I don't gap the moving targets, just aim and shoot.

[Stump73]

I anchor at the corner of my mouth for both

Have you tried shooting split with the middle finger in line with the corner of your mouth?  That would put the arrow in the same position as your three under.  If you are intentionally gap shooting or partially gap shooting, it is helpful to have your arrow under the eye.  I personally think whether we try or not we can see that arrow, how much acknowledgement we consider is what makes one a gap shooter or not.  Myself, I do not particularly pick something to place my arrow or where my shaft crosses my bow.  I come down from a slightly higher position to an imaginary reference point with my last 4 or 5 inches of straight back draw, I release almost instantly right handed and hold for less than a half second left handed.  It is easier for me to subtract that little bit from a higher position than to figure in the total from the bottom up in a swing or spread draw. It takes time and patience to change things, the important part is to keep doing something the same so it gets ingrained as a habit.  When referencing the position of the arrow, at first you may find that shooting purely instinctive may be better, but concentrate on your full draw anchor and follow through and it will all seem instinctive after a few hundred shots with the added advantage of being able to correct your shots quicker on your next arrows or if you change bows and one happens to put an arrow in a different place. From my Robertsons to my Hill style bows the difference is about a half an arrow width at 25 yards.

[njloco]

I think you have your fingers mixed up, your pointing finger is your index finger. To try and answer your question, shooting three under helps to get the arrow more into your line of sight.

I think what you may have been eluding to was pretty much what I do, which is, to shoot split finger but use my middle finger to the corner of my mouth, this basically raises the string end of the arrow to the same level to the eye as shooting three under.

Gap shooting is nothing more than picking a point higher or lower than the target depending on the distance from the target, very effective as long as your good at figuring out the distance to the target and you practice at those distances. In reality we all gap shoot in one form or another, meaning that gap shooters do it on a conscious level and instinctive shooters do it on a subconscious level, at least this is my take on the comparison.

Hope this helps.

P.S. oopsy, I guess we all answered at once,    

[**DONOTDELETE**]

my question. Someone on the split finger versus 3 under thread mentioned that they shoot accurately using the 3 under method out to 20 yards then start degrading due to unconscious gapping etc. Can someone please clarify for me how that works....and also clarify for me the affect the two styles have in general on instinctive vs gap shooting?  

Just to answer your question without getting side tracked.... Shooting 3 under typically raises your arrow closer to your eye making the gap between the point of your arrow and the location of impact smaller.  

Example:  with split finger anchored in the same spot as 3 under your "Point on" would be 40-45 or more yards,and the point on gap would be 18" lower than the point of impact. where with 3 under your point on would be 20-25 yards. raising the arrow closer to your eye gives you a smaller gap. on 3 under your point on would only be 4 inches lower for 15-20 yards and still on the body of the target.

the second part of your question is instinctive vs  gap.  With gap shooting you consciously measure the gap between your arrow point and the impact point. If you hold your point on target and hit dead center at 25 yards and move up to 15 yards, you need to set the gap about 4" lower than what your point on is.... You also need to estimate yardage and set your gap for each distance.

Most Instinctive shooters typically shoot split finger, but not always. some have a 3 under release but a lower anchor point..... The gap method i explained above still exists, only its done on a subconscious level. Instinctive shooter do not consciously measure the gap. they concentrate totally on the spot they want to hit & let their subconscious mind do the calculations for elevation at different yardage. There are instinctive shooters that are incredibly accurate at a wide range of yardages too.

The guys that say they can shoot 3 under using a gap very accurately until long yardage comes into pay. just need to spend more time shooting longer distances and learn to use their gaps and focus on a spot higher that the impact point. The reason this is tough is because once their point on raises above the target completely they can no longer focus on the spot they want to hit and the arrow gap too because there is no gap.

To successfully using a gap system at longer distances, you hold your point on the very top of your target at 30 yards and see how far the arrow drops from the point on. Then you take that gap lets say it's 12". look at your target and pick a spot above the bulls eye 12" and hold your point on it. the arrow drops right into the bulls eye.

when you move back to 40,50, and further yardage you need to adjust the point on further above the target at each distance as you calculate the yardage.....

A lot of guys that shoot "Split vision" with split finger, pretty much focus on their spot from 15 - 30 yards and don't consciously use a gap. then become more conscious of the arrow point  as it comes into view and tightens their gap. As they get closer to their point on the arrow tip is more visible as they get out there around 40-50 yards..... hope that helps...

[archer66]

Index finger....pointer finger....middle finger....gap....instinctive....I got it all mixed up..lol.

Yeah....index and pointer are the same...meant middle finger.  Dangit. lol

Thanks guys....each of you answered in a way that is helpful to me and makes sense.

If you point with your middle finger, no one can accuse you of making a gun finger, then you won't get kicked out of school. Then again some folks may get the wrong idea with middle finger as well. IT'S NOT POLITE TO POINT, unless you are pointing an arrow.

[njloco]

In Jersey, they seem to always use the middle finger, but only for pointing up    

Kirkll, that was explained quite nicely !