Great archers and heavy bows

[BamBooBender]

It seems like all of the great archers/hunters shot/shoot  heavy bows, at least at some point in their lives. Any ideas as to why?

I was just wondering cause it seems like a common theme with most all of them. I mean Howard Hill, Saxton Pope, Art Young, Fred Bear, Paul Shafer, Ron LaClair, Byron Ferguson, etc etc. I just wonder is it because of the flatter trajectory afforded by the draw weight, or just being naturally strong and/or having natural athletic ability that gives them the edge. Or ,on the other hand,is it due to visual acuity? Hand eye coordination?  What gives them the edge?

[captaincaveman]

I am FAR from one of the greatest archers ever,  But my bows right now are 83# and 86# @ 29.5".  I have a strong back and a piss poor release.  I cannot shoot a bow under about 65# worth a crap. 80+ I win shoots and kill critters.  I'm not saying Hill, Bear, etc. had release issues but a bow that basically releases itself is one less thing to worry about

Josh

[Bonebuster]

CaptainCaveman has a valid point.

[the Ferret]

First of all I think they shot them because they had the physical strength to do so.

secondly a heavier bow shoots an arrow flatter requiring less judgement in trajectory although Hill used an indirect aiming system.

I personally don't think release had anything to do with it. I can demonstrate to anyone how the string from a 20 pound bow will rip cleanly from your fingers. Not being able to release cleanly is a mental "form" problem and it happens with guys shooting 45#ers or 80#ers, the same as target panic has nothing to do with the weight of the bow. Olympic archers, the most accurate archers of all don't shoot 80# bows  because their mechanics are good.

[capt eddie]

Most of us do not have the time to put in practicing enough to shot a heavy bow. If we made a living shooting a bow and could see the advantages it give us we would all like to shoot a heavier bow. Most of the people we think of as great archers have even greater Agents selling them to the puplic.

[dan ferguson]

I think captaincaveman might be right, Byron has stated this for his main reason for shooting heavier poundage, I shoot a heavier bow for this reason and they will shoot heavy arrows alittle flatter, but also I believe with training lighter poundage bows can be released smoothly, I also feel that bows being built today are far superior to bows from yesteryear, Heck they are obtaining fps from 45# bows today that come close to 85# bows from yesterday, I stay somewhere in the middle and shoot 68 to 72#, but then there is Howard Hill that still today few if any can match. All I know is I can,t blame my bow, must be the arrows.

[Matt E]

Ihave found that a bow is like a hat, you need one that fits you.A light bow may not be best for some archers. People that can pull a heavy draw bow back will seek their maximum limit with no ill effect. The same is true with the people that can't.In my younger days I used a 72# draw bow , I felt comfortable with this weight but had shot 80# which was a bit much for me.I No longer can handle these weights. 55# is now all I can handle. I also found that when I shot bows of low poundage my release was not the best and  my accuracy suffered.As Mickey mentioned Olympic archers shoot low poundage but they also shoot a static style which I find almost useless in a hunting situation. I would not compare the two as Olympic archers are for the most part one dimensional.

[mike g]

Howard Hill, Always said,shoot the heavest bow you can shoot....

[the Ferret]

I would agree with that Mike only add "accurately and repeatedly".

[Raminshooter]

Having lived in S. California for a time and having met many old timers from the days of Howard Hill it was explained to me in a couple of ways.  First, most of the archers of that era were hard working men and could shoot the heavier bows.  Another reason was peer presure (everyone shot them so I should shoot them).  A more practical reason has been mentioned above and that is that while hunting you are not shooting arrow after arrow so pulling a bow a couple of times at stumps and then a couple of times at deer (with long breaks in between) was not physically tiring and it gave you a flat trajectory.  Prior to the laminates, a heavier wt. bow was also tougher in the woods. For evidence of this just look at the rawhide backed bows that Pope used in Alaska and elsewhere.  He used his bows as wading sticks and hiking sticks while still using it to shoot tough animals.  These bows had to take a beating and keep on ticking as the saying goes. But another thing is that these guys just plain shot a lot more than some archers do today and because of that they were physically fit to shoot the heavy stuff.  
Now, I am not a fred bear expert but I have read him quoted as saying his personal favorite bow wt. was 60 pounds.  Chester Stevenson, the Ole Bowhunter, shot the real heavy stuff but he settled on a personal favorite bow length of 64 inches with a favorite wt. of around 62-64 pounds at this draw.....and this guy had the gear to prove he had experimented with it all in all the right circumstances.  
Last point I would add here is to just examine your own experience.  When out stump shooting you have a tendancey, if you do it enough, to learn to shoot with a faster pace to your shooting.  Shooting mostly targets all the time you have a tendancy to hold longer which is tougher to do with a heavy bow.  Even Howard had a favorit bow just for shooting tournaments, it was 65 lbs rather than his normal 85 lbs, because shooting that heavy wt. during a 28 target round would really exhaust you.  Whatever you do have fun with it.

[mike g]

Ferret....
    I was thinking the same as you, butt those wurds are long....and hard to spell....  

[Bjorn]

Those 'yesteryear' bows were pretty darned good even compared to todays best. Pound for pound bows I have from the forties and fifties will be about 15-20 fps slower slower than my ACS, and one half to one third of that gain is on on account of better strings on todays bows.

[30coupe]

The older I get, the more I appreciate lighter weight bows! I have also discovered that the trajectory is not much of a factor at the ranges I shoot. The timber I hunt makes 20 yards a long shot...you just can't see much beyond that. Fifteen yards is about the norm for our LONGEST shots. At that range, I don't need to beat myself up with a heavy bow. How far the arrow buries itself into the ground after passing through the deer really doesn't matter.

I would agree that Bear, Pope and Young and the like didn't have to shoot that many shots, so managing heavy bows was easier for them. Exhibition shooters like Hill and Ferguson shoot LOTS of arrows with heavy bows. I am in awe of those guys. I am sure a fast, flat trajectory is critical to what they do, but shooting a 70 pound bow every day would have to wear on the joints, tendons, etc. Being able to do that...and hit what they shoot at...is what makes them so special!

[Rick McGowan]

I saw Hil quoted as saying that one of his reasons for accuracy WAS the heavy bow. I disagree that the reasons some of them shot heavy bows was they didn't shoot that much, I think just the opposite. You really don't gain much in tradjectory with a heavy bow, since you also end up with heavier arrows, BUT you do end up with better penetration and THAT is why MANY very experienced hunters shoot heavier bows. Most of the time I shoot bows in the mid 60's range, thats because most of the time I hunt deer and pigs and that is a plenty heavy bow for them, BUT if you hunt bigger game as all those guys did, it just is better to use a bigger bow. I can shoot my 80 or 85# bows just as well as the 65#, just not as many times in a row, so what I don't need to, I don't target shoot with them, targets only need the arrow to stick in them, not go all the way through!

[Shawn Leonard]

Rick is correct, no difference in trajectory if you are shooitng say 9gpp. out of a 40# bow or a 75# bow of the same design or 10gpp or 14gpp. for that matter. I shot them for a lot of years due to I got a much better release with them, I have got bad shoulders now, real bad and went to 50-55# bows and have worked on my realease and I am happy with it. If I were to hunt African game, I would than shoot 75-85#s for a short period to allow me hunt some of those big critters, but here in North America 55#s will kill anything on this continent. Shawn

[xia_emperor]

if you have good form, you should have not problems shooting a lighter bow. by going to heaver weight it may correct you release, but I do not see how. there is no reason to shoot 70 plus pound unless your going to Africa. but what ever make you happy. Olympic archers can shoot out to 90 meter, that is good/great forum and that is all that matters since that is how you get a repeatable shot.  

[dragonheart]

Bowhunting shot situations and olympic/field archery are very differnet types of shooting circumstances.  If you have "Hunting the Hard Way" by Mr. Hill and are so inclined reread Pages 83-96.  It rings true today, as it did when he pinned the words so many moons ago.  At least in my bowhunting experiences.

Longbows & Short Shots,
Jeff

[Richie Nell]

"there is no reason to shoot 70 plus pound unless your going to Africa."

What? what a ridiculous statement.  

Other than physical limitations of the bow user give me a reason to NOT shoot a 70+ pound bow.

[30coupe]

Richie,

I could shoot squirrels with my .44 Magnum, but they get just as dead with a .22, and I don't have to deal with the noise and recoil on every shot.

That's not even a great comparison, since my 55 pound bow will shoot through any critter available on this continent and so will a 70 pound bow and since there is no difference in trajectory with equal grains/pound arrows, I can give several reasons not to shoot a 70+ pound bow.

1. They are harder to draw and hold steady.
2. They are harder on the joints (esp. for us older guys).
3. They ruin my broadheads when they hit rocks, trees, etc. AFTER going through what I am shooting at.
4. Most importantly...I don't have one!   :rolleyes:    :D

[BamBooBender]

Wow! this has really taken a turn.I was just wondering about the correlation between noteworthy archers past and present(mostly past) and heavy bows. Not a heavy vs light debate.

A lot has been answered, except the hand eye coordination/visual acuity part(really another question altogether I know). The only reason I added that on there is because I heard a theory(for lack of a better word) once about how alot of the great baseball pitchers had excellent visual acuity,better than 20/20 like 20/15 or even 20/10. So I wondered if that sort of thing would make a difference in shooting ability too.