You just can't give them away!

[DaveT1963]

I usually buy several bows each year.  I Personally found that I could find better deals when not looking on item specific websites.... people tend to "over estimate" what their item is truly worth on them (ex. selling a tree saddle on a hunting site, bow on a bow site, kayak on a kayak site, etc.)  Not all but some.

Very few items ever maintain a true 80-90% resale value - very few---- nor should they.  I picked up a really nice - NEW custom longbow from a well known bowyer's website last year cheaper then what I saw a couple people trying to resale the same type USED bow on here???

There are just so many amazing bowyers out there right now making great products to support most bows being resold at 80-90% of their purchase price - unless that bow is just something you have to have or has become a collectors item.

The other factor I think was that a lot of folks went through the trad archery frenzy/phase over last decade or so - now that frenzy has moved to crossbows as more and more states are opening up archery seasons to them and the manufacturers are pumping 100,000s of dollars into advertising.  We are left with an abundance of used bows on the market as a result of this shift.  My experience is that most that try trad archery on a whim seldom stick with it for more then a few years.... they keep upgrading to the newest and bestest bow each year as they expect it to make up for their lack of time and commitment - thus after a few years they return to something that requires far less time/commitment.

Just one man's HO

[Brianlocal3]

I listed a bear 59r this morning, and it was sold within an hour. I think if you list it right it will sell

[ranger 3]

Look at it this way, we can still buy from the sponsors.

[David Mitchell]

Originally posted by Brianlocal3:
I listed a bear 59r this morning, and it was sold within an hour. I think if you list it right it will sell

Exactly my experience.  If you have a bow that people want and you price it right, they sell.  I have no problem moving bows here.

[achigan]

I'd like to complement Terry and the mods for letting this thread run its course. Being able to comment all the facets of this situation is great! Thanks guys!!  

[Nala]

I never really understood the $30 thing for the Classifieds.  My memory isn't as good as it used to be, but I don't recall rampant fraud in the Classifieds or a slew of members complaining that they were ripped off.  Maybe it happened and I didn't pay attention to it and now maybe it's taken care of with the fee to browse.

I like the site and would contribute some if a PayPal program were set up and the $30 fee removed.  I'm sure many others would gleefully drop some coin to the site too.

Right now I am thinking about selling a longbow or maybe trying to trade it for another bow, but that $30 will buy me 100 feathers or almost a dozen Easton XX75 GameGetter 2 arrows.

It feels like the vast majority that come here and love the site are being punished by taking away a popular part of the forum unless you pay a fee to "join" the Classifieds section.

I guess there's really no point in beating this horse any longer.  It is what it is and that's that.  I would like the site to go back to what it was before the fee and instead ask for donations from the masses.  They'll give.  I'd bet my bow collection on it.

Oh well.  I might be in trouble for speaking on it and might not be here tomorrow.
Have a good one fellas.

Nalajr

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Its been said before... Trad gang is not about the classifieds. Most people never heard of the issues of Fraud going on but it had become more than a full time job for the Moderators to resolve.

They have their own jobs and lives to deal with so constant claims work was taking its toll.  The menial fee narrowed down the classifieds to mostly honest people and has allowed the Moderators to get back to semi Normal lives.

You didn't hear about it because they dont air dirty laundry. It would only create more issues.

If someone doesn't want to pay the menial contributor fee and probably save up to half on a custom bow, there are other venues to do so at.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I would like to add Trad gang had tried several other methods to eliminate the scams on the classifieds and they didn't work.  

This one is working.

Allowing people to view for free would allow back door sales and still create the same issues.

Trust me, a lot of thought was put into this and it has been working for a  couple years now.

Kudos to the Mods and their endless effort to make lives better for everyone involved.

[daveycrockett]

I just bought a near new high end recurve here and saved about 550.00. 30.00 was a small price to pay to save the 550.00.

[Nala]

How could a moderator do anything about 2 people entering into an agreement and one of them cheating the other?  Sure they can BAN the crooked one AFTER the fact, but it seems to me that the one that rooked another member out of his hard earned money wouldn't stick around after the score to try it again anyway.
You say this method eliminated the fraud...but what is going to happen when a shyster out there has a good score in mind, like saying he has a really nice Bear TD that is very much sought after, and antes up the $30 to post his ad to nail one of the other members for $1500?  Is the fee gonna go up to $75 then?
If there was a lot of fraud before...$30 ain't gonna deter those that make HUNDREDS or more from a single score.  It doesn't make sense.  If you were a crook and knew you could nail someone and make $500...would you let $30 stand in your way?  I wouldn't and neither would it stop someone bent on no good.
So...while you say that all of the rampant fraud has been eliminated, the side effect of the system is to eliminate 90% of the people that once enjoyed the Classified section.

How do all the other forums that I am a member of that have Classified sections but don't have a fee to look at them and use them, survive with all the fraud that is taking place in them?  I'm talking about a couple dozen gun forums where it is far easier to rook someone out of their money than a TRAD bow site with a far smaller pool of interested people to begin with.  Out of the dozens and dozens of forums I am a member of and participated in since 1999, when I first joined an online forum, this is the only one I have ever seen that charges members to use the Classifieds.  Was something going on here before the fee that was unique to Trad Gang?

The best and most effective way to deal with fraud is by letting members warn other members about who is doing it and what the scam is all about.

Everyone can believe what they want about this issue.  I am not going to say anything else.  It serves no purpose other than to get me banned.
I'll leave it to the Trad Gang Intelligentsia to do as they wish.  I'm probably not sharp enough to tackle such weighty issues anyway.

Larry.


P.S.  If my membership is through..I've enjoyed my time here very much over the years.  Best of luck to you all.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Larry, You make some interesting points.  

Trad Gang has helped resolve fraudulent activity by contacting authorities and other methods to resolve losses.  Not saying they are willing to continue to go that far in the future.

You mention the fee might go up if there is another robbery... It may... But the slippery slope theory is unfounded.

All I can say is... the proof is in the puttin. They went from Dozens of problem transactions in a year to one in 2 years.

I cant speak for the other sites you mention but for a scam artist, its far easier to go elsewhere and steal for free.

You are correct, the buyer and seller have to accept responsibility and use common sense. You are also Correct that 30 dollars will not stop thieves hellbent to score but it will deter them as it already has.  

Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is. No amount of debate will change it as Trad Gang is about Bow Hunting not bow selling.

Getting back to the original poster, The market is slow, nothing more nothing less. Its the same on all the FREE sites as well.  They are the same bows as here anyhow. The nice thing about here is, you can add as many photos as you would like in one post.

[Babbling Bob]

It's fun seeing the ads and they add a lot to the forum. Do see the same guys selling succesfully over and over, so not all people are having trouble selling.  Still the best place for me, who may buy this later year after I know I can make it through the year and pay all the unexpected costs for just plain living.  Now is the wrong time to buy for me.

With this forum, theres no bidding, honest descriptions, and good trad shooting people with similar interests. If one of my friends wanted to shoot trad and would want to know where to look for a bow, I would encourage him to pay up and join the forum, watch a while, then buy from a member.

As for sellars, if you want a good quality customer, this is the place, but if you have to unload a bow fast, then take your chances in another market place and just hope you get a good customer. I would guess there are only good quality customers here. But many of us who are retired and older, may have something we already like to shoot, and we also may have small pockets.

Sure like his forum.

[Jakeemt]

Originally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:



Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is.  

I wouldn't call myself a guest here. It's true that members here do not build and maintain the site.(which btw the mods and TG do a good job of IMO) however this site also exists and turns a profit because of it's members. Contributors or not. Does that entitle me to say and do anything I want here? Of course not. Nor does it entitle me to make the rules. However, voicing an opinion about a policy in a respectful way is something quite different.

[R.V.T.B.]

Excellent response Nala.  I often wondered the same thing myself.  What did the moderators do to resolve a bad transaction....  or what could they even do?  Banning the culprit is about their only recourse.

[KentuckyTJ]

Originally posted by Wudstix:
 

Originally posted by Archie:
 It would be nice if it was a one-time fee instead of annually.  It definitely impacts my browsing, and if I ain't browsin', I ain't buyin'.

This is me too.  Many things that I can spend that fee on especially when I don't purchase much, most of my action was trades. [/b]

I know its been beat to death but I have never given my two cents on this and its bugged me since its inception.

I agree with a one time $30 fee. Once you pay and are determined not to be a thief why should you have to prove that again and again?

Before the fee I bought and sold dozens of bows. If possible (I do know these canned forum softwares have their design limitations) there should be some sort of seller rating system like the big auction sites have. Then its buyer beware and TG mods should not get involved in any scam. If you are buying from a new member that has no transaction history that's your risk.

I have a love for a beautiful bow and don't need anymore thats for sure. Since the fee was implemented It has been my intervention and I haven't been able to make any impulse buys.

My wife is very happy about the annual fee.    

[David Mitchell]

Since the adoption of the fee this is THE ONLY place now where I sell.  I feel that confident about it.  I gladly contribute to the site.

[kat]

"Walking into someone's house and complaining about their rules doesn't make for a very welcome guest. This fee has been initiated and is the way it is. No amount of debate will change it as Trad Gang is about Bow Hunting not bow selling."

Well said. My feeling is that we are all guests here. Nobody is reaching out and asking me to come here. IMO $30. is a heck of a deal for this site WITHOUT the classifieds.

   

[Bud B.]

You're taunting me, aren't you David    

I'll say again...for me it's not the $30...it's what I'll spend AFTER the $30 access.  

I think some of the scams caused scammed members to compel Terry to get involved. I'm sure Terry felt some obligation to get involved. The fee cut down on his getting involved so he can focus more on his life, family, and job. And if it cut his involvement down to zero, then why not do it? For family sake. For sanity sake.

He offers contributors a nice "raffle" opportunity of a hunt. It's like buying a raffle ticket for $30 for a hunt that would be hundreds of dollars in value otherwise. And other items are randomly given to contributors as well.

Pay to play, or not. Just don't critically gripe. Disagree respectfully, if you must. Clicking on any site is a choice. Not clicking on any site is a choice.

I'll keep clicking on here daily.

I think what folks are missing is that Tradgang is a business, they can run their business anyway they want. I run mine the way I want, it is the right of anyone that runs a business. What I hate is selling bows, I like giving them to those that can use them. What I hate more is when guys that I have given bows to, turn around and sell them for pure profit, rather than giving them back so I can give them away again. At times it is better to sell things outright and a forum is a good place to do that.

[David Mitchell]

Bud B., taunting? Me?    :confused:   Now why on earth would a nice guy like me do a sneaky thing like that?    :D