Scouting a "header" and dreaming of November

[meathead]

Hey Ryan is that field continuous soybeans?  Have you hunted it with corn there?  It would make a sneaky entrance easier but it also might expand their bedding area.

[Ryan Rothhaar]

No unfortunately due to the size and terrain the farmer can't get corn in there.  Will be a short maturity bean this year followed by winter wheat with clover frost seeded.  2016-2018 will be clover that gets mowed for hay, which I'm real happy with. I'm planning to buy enough alfalfa seed to have around 20% in the mix, and give it to the farmer to add in.... win/win/win for the farmer, the deer, and me       .  Clover will probably be better overall for the hunting than beans.

R

[Homey88]

Here is a video of that rub I found when scouting.

   

[Homey88]

http://vid1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/homey861/MOV_4783.MOV_zpsgcwa9wyh.mp4

[jonsimoneau]

Hey Ryan, good stuff. I've got a question though, not having seen the area at all I was wondering could you set your stand near where the old ratchet strap is so that you can remain downwind of the cruising trail, so as to help with the tricky wind situation of stand B?  Or is it a deal where the trails are more concentrated where stand B is? I could see how you could have trails converging there near the bedding area, but by the time the buck crosses the field from west to east the trails may branch off and he may enter the woods on the east side of the field any number of ways.  Am I close? Ha!

[frassettor]

Great thread!! I'll be headed out today to look at some land!

[twigflicker]

Had to laugh... looked at the map Ryan drew and thought... man the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Could have passed for Roger's drawings in his books...

Jonathan

[Ryan Rothhaar]

Yep, good eye, Jon.  It's on my list to try to figure out something close to the old strap in the tree.  The problem is there that its big timber and the cover is even more limited in the trees there than for stand B.  That would be a better option for approach as I could drop off of the field not shown to the east and cross the bottom drainage to access from NE.  There will be a stand there eventually.  Another thing about option B is that there is some N/S activity along the thicket edge that could be covered from there.  That cedar thicket has 8 inch diameter rubs from last year.

This is really still my learning time for this place....the first year I had 11 stands on it (around 90 acres/65 timber).  Year 2 I had 10 stands, but only 2 hadn't moved from year 1 - some weren't moved very far, but only 2 ended up in the same tree.  This year I'm planning to start the season with 10 stands up, of which 5 will be stands that were up last year and 5 will be new.

R

[jonsimoneau]

Gotcha Ryan. Thanks. Yea I could see where a Northwest wind could work for that spot because a buck can scent check the thicket.  I wonder if the Bucks you are seeing on a south or southwest wind pattern may be paralleling the west field edge just inside the woods where they can check the thicket and then taking a right turn past your future stand as they head off the the next bedding area. Interesting stuff.

[Kevin Hansen]

Great thread.
For years I have hunted flat ag ground with the majority of the cover being shelter belts (planted rows of trees). Fairly easy in those situations to figure out where the deer are going to travel and how they are going to use the wind.
Then about 5 years ago I gained access to river breaks country; steep sided draws with creeks in the bottom, and thick cover of cedars and oaks on the hill sides. Definitely a deer hunters paradise.
At first glance it seemed like it would be easy to locate stands in country like this. Heck, everything was prime deer habitat! After one season I quickly learned not all was as it seemed. Not all areas received equal use, and most frustrating of all, some of the very best areas seem impossible to hunt because of winds that constantly swirl.
This thread on scouting a header caught my eye, because it falls right in line with the type of locations that I know are best but have found so difficult to hunt due to swirling winds.
I'm not even sure this is a legit question, but are there certain terrain features, or techniques in stand location in these types of areas that can up a person's odds? One thing I've found is it seems the winds are more stable once the leaves are gone. Also, if I can stay up on top of the ridges I usually get predictable winds. It still drives me bonkers though that some of what I feel are the very best ambush locations just seem impossible to hunt because of swirling winds.
A perfect example is a location on the property I hunt where three ridges rise up out of a draw. At the bottom where the ridges rise up is a deep bowl with a great header crossing used by every deer either headed up towards the top or coming down towards the creek in the bottom. No matter where I place my stand though the wind turns into an enemy. What have some of you done in similar situations?
Anyone have wisdom to share?

[Kevin Hansen]

Guys, I would really like to hear from those of you that have more experience than I do hunting this type of terrain. I'm positive you could give me some advice and share some wisdom.

[Steve O]

Kevin,

Gene Wensel's latest book has some high level wind theory in it.

[Kevin Hansen]

Thanks for the input, Steve. I have devoured Gene's latest book and it is awesome. It was his wind theory that opened my eyes to leaves vs. no leaves making a big difference in how the wind behaves in an area. I also took to heart his quote that the best wind is a wind that is almost good for the deer and almost bad for the hunter. I paraphrased that a bit, but that is how I interpreted his words.
Again, thanks.

[jonsimoneau]

Yea Kevin, I've been in that situation many times as well where you find what is seemingly a perfect spot only to find that the winds are going to be too inconsistent. One thing I'm finding though is to not make assumptions without checking things. Like we know that winds are normally pretty inconsistent in the bottoms of ravines, and creek bottoms. But that doesn't mean there aren't spots where the wind will be more consistent. It seems like you have to check each spot.

[J. Holden]

Jon, and others, I just wanted to say thank you for initiating and sharing your scouting "techniques".  It encouraged me to get off my duff and get out in the woods.

I have now found an area that is literally beaten down with trails and prints.  Both big and small alike.

I primarily hunt public ground so I will need to find a few more "spots".  But I really like the area I found.  It is thick, sort of swampy in that is low land, and it has those tunnels that are formed by the deer as they meander through the under story.

I have found several spots where the tunnels empty out into small open areas that will offer some good shots.

Come on October!

-Jeremy  

[Kyle Lancaster]

We've been preparing since late Feb. Trimming paths to stands, paths to funnel deer, prepping treestand locations, foodplot, mineral sites, etc.
As a longtime Trad bowhunter, this may be blasphemy, but check out Bill Winke's site, Midwest Whitetail. He's discussing alot on wind techniques right now. Admin: warning...it's not trad but it is bowhunting.

Kyle

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Great Thread Jon, Not sure how I missed it.

I think you guys have great ideas. I have spent a lot of time in years past trying to find deer sign and understand their movements on a public piece I hunt.

I dont want to take away the importance of your thread because the advice and tactics here are sound but for me where I hunt, I find it more useful to scout immediately after deer season and also during it.

I tend to find that if I can pattern hunters, usually I can find the deer. Last fall I found a  gut Pile that was full of corn. I am a bit perplexed as the nearest corn field is miles away, so I am not sure if these deer travel there at night or someone is baiting.

Part of the trouble on this Ground is that most guys leave their stands in there indefinitely. Its not uncommon to see 15-20 stands in one scouting session. These do not give me complete accurate info as often stands go unused.

The nice thing about January and February missions is I can find food sources like acorns, but often they are ignored in November.  

I tend to go way in but found last fall after gun season starts (this is a bow only area) most deer do not travel as far into the brush. As far as I can tell, these deer move to residential areas to feed at night in the cover of Darkness and return before light.  I have also found they travel a bit during mid day.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Today while walking about I found an area i have always discounted before. Its close to the road but has several major trails that are forced to a narrow area about 30 yards wide and then 2 merge and then down to a 15 yard wide section.

It has a hill on one side which on the other side of is a  business with high fences and on the other side is an old abandoned yard with tall chain link fence. the trails are HEAVY and there is an Ag field another 75 yards deeper. Most hunters as far as I can tell go way around this spot and much deeper in the woods.

From what I can tell the deer funnel out of the field and stage in this little area and feed on acorns before they move off and cross the road onto private land.

I still need to understand the wind better here but feel like I have hit a home run with this spot.

I cant tell you how many times I have walked past it thinking It might be OK last fall, the sign in there is overwhelming.

[jonsimoneau]

Good stuff guys. Good luck this fall. It won't be long now.

[jonsimoneau]

I'm a little obsessed I guess. I have not stopped thinking about this spot. I was able to get 2 days off of work so I decided to go there and hang some stands in the areas I scouted this March. The area that is the topic of this thread is so far turning out to be a dream come true. I hung a stand in the best tree there. I know it's going to be the right spot. My concern has been swirling winds since this stand is located on a shelf on the side of a ridge. I've checked the currents with milkweed pods and so far it looks good. But it may be different when the foliage comes off the trees.  If not then this stand has it all. There are multiple trails covering the entire length of the ridgeline which runs mostly north to south. They all converge around a header that is midway down the ridge on a "shelf". The "shelf" in this situation is pretty wide. That may be why I'm seeing consistent wind patterns. The gorge where the header exists is deep steep and full of logjams making it even more attractive. The tree I placed the stand is mostly perfect. It may need a little cover in it which I will add in a month or so but even if I didn't it would probably be fine. Access could not be better. I can slip right up the drainage from the gravel road at the bottom and climb the bank and climb the tree. It's quiet walking and hidden from the deer that I know bed above. I can't wait to try this one out this November!