Penetration with wood shafts

[Doug_K]

I feel i'm on the defensive here, so I'm going to reiterate that I like wood shafting. I enjoy building arrows out of them, & I enjoy the traditional aspect of them.
My experience on shouldering deer is limited to the one I mentioned (thankfully), however, I've seen that shot from a lighter bow/carbon arrow combination at similar range break the shoulder and penetrate the vitals. I've also broken more wood arrows in target practice than I've damaged carbons & aluminum in all aspects of archery.

The term "Good enough" is different for each of us. A wooden self bow is "good enough", though i'd wager that 75% of us use fiberglass backed bows. Wooden arrows were "good enough" for war because that was the best available, not to mention humane kills weren't a priority.

Obviously it would have been better to not take the shot, hindsight 20/20 and all. But, to me, just questioning whether or not that arrow was the difference between a wounded or dead animal tells me that it's not good enough for me.

Small game? Yes. Turkeys? Why not? Deer and bigger? I'll pass, so long as better options are available.

Each their own.

[Wheels2]

I spent a lot of time stump shooting woods.  Hard hits broke the shaft right behind the Judo.
Same for carbons.  
I would not hesitate to shoot woods for deer.
The best I ever shot were compressed and tapered cedars.  Sadly, no longer available.

[Sawpilot 75]

Use what makes you feel comfortable because in the end that's all that matters. I will only use wood because that's all I have used since the 80's and I'm confortable with it.

[Homey88]

Thanks so much for the input. I likely will be shooting Easton xx75 500 spine arrows with Magnus stingers. I will eventually like to try wooden arrows someday and will do so in the future. I did hunt with wooden arrows for turkey this year but not shots presented itself. I greatly appreciate all the input and feedback.

[ChuckC]

Be careful comparing shots.  A failed arrow / broadhead on one shot simply cannot be compared to another that didn't fail, because it was a different shot with very different circumstances. The shoulder is a complex area, not just a smooth bone of similar density and thickness, and it moves. . .  deflect any shaft, or bullet for that matter, and you just changed the outcome.  Add to that shot locations and angles that really should not be taken and you have other issues.

Now, carbon may be stronger, or stiffer or etc.  but as was pointed out, wood works well too.  

If you just cannot do without the fastest / strongest / never failest, I suggest you get a .338 Win Mag and keep shots close.

The above is just my opinion, and I can't prove any of it.

ChuckC

[longbowman]

I've hunted with nearly every kind of wood shaft you can buy.  When it all boiled down I ended up using cedar shafts and have blown through every major bone in a deer (except the head).  I've never had a wood shaft hit a shoulder and break but rather they just zip right through.  I've shot through bull elk, black bear and numerous mulies and whitetails.  They are quieter off the bow.  My arrows with the original Bear Razorheads on them come in between 600-625 grains and I'm shooting them from a 72#@27" Bear T.D.

[dragonheart]

Originally posted by longbowman:
I've hunted with nearly every kind of wood shaft you can buy.  When it all boiled down I ended up using cedar shafts and have blown through every major bone in a deer (except the head).  I've never had a wood shaft hit a shoulder and break but rather they just zip right through.  I've shot through bull elk, black bear and numerous mulies and whitetails.  They are quieter off the bow.  My arrows with the original Bear Razorheads on them come in between 600-625 grains and I'm shooting them from a 72#@27" Bear T.D.

You are shooting a 72# recurve.  No real comparison to this archer wanting to know about penetration with a 43# recurve.  Sounds like you have a great equipment set-up!

My wife has shot over a dozen deer with bows that are about 38 pounds at her 26.5" draw all with wood arrows and all from the ground.  We found every deer she hit except one that was a low leg nick after an aluminum arrow clipped a branch and was knocked off course. All of the others except one was either a pass through or the broadhead was sticking out the other side.  The one that was not two holes, the deer jumped on the shot.  The 25 year old wood arrow entered the back right ham and stopped in the far left shoulder blade sticking most of the right wing Grizzly on a left wing wood shaft into the shoulder blade. If someone with a longer draw than her's wants to shoot a deer with a wood arrow, I am sure that it can be done.

[joe skipp]

My first bow was 46#, shot Cedars spined 50/55 with Bear Razorheads. Took a few deer, penetration at 25 yds and under was either half or up to the fletching.

Switched to Forgewoods, Compressed Cedar, small diameter. Those same shots, same head resulted in pass throughs. Quality wood shafts from a quality supplier require very little work to keep them straight.

I use aluminum for my trips out west, flatter trajectory at longer distances plus durability. Made up some Surewood Doug Fir last year, no problems with straightness or toughness and no problems with penetration out to 30 yds with my 55# bows.

Taking questionable shots, hitting bone will result in lost animals. Never had an ash, Forgewood or Fir break off behind the point when hitting a shoulder and sliding around. I'm not a fan of PO Cedar although that's all we shot in the late 60's and early 70's. I preferred a more durable wood like those offered today.

Your setup at 43# with the arrow wt your shooting is fine. Keep your shots 20 yds max, and take the broadside or quartering away shot. Place the arrow in the lungs and you'll be taking home venison.

[Nativestranger]

What bow was she shooting? 38# 26.5" that's amazing results.

[Wudstix]

Properly spined and tuned arrows are the key. Have been shooting wood arrows for 43 years and have had pass throughs with bows from 40-68#. Shot placement, sharp broad heads and well tuned arrows are key. Plus they are fun to make.

   

One thing to remember, the number on the side of the bow is only a number. As in the case with my wife's bows, they shoot the same arrow the same speed at the same draw as some Hill style longbows that are ten or more pounds heavier.  With an even faster bow like a Dryad or a Bigfoot, the difference would be even more apparent.  As with any set up, getting the arrow directly behind the broadhead at impact is key to good penetration.

[woodchucker]

I knew Skipper would show up,sooner or later!!!  

[myshootinstinks]

I've used wood arrows almost exclusively out of 50+ lb bows with no penetration problems. Most pass through on deer. Never broke an arrow inside a deer but I've seen the arrow break when the head passes through but the fletchings hang up on the hide, leaving the shaft dangling out the exit wound.

[bluemelonchitlin]

Nothing wrong with wood shafts. They are quieter than aluminum and carbon for the simple reason they're not hollow.
POC shafts are the easiest ones to work with but are more fragile. The only time I've had a cedar arrow break is when I've missed or had a pass-thru,both instances where the arrow hit something hard at an angle.
Sitka spruce is a great arrow wood to work with and very strong but also light.
POCs and Sitka spruce take soaking in stain well plus doing this adds weight.
Ash is a good heavyweight wood but does need heat to straighten.
I still use aluminum and the only carbons that my bows shoot have the Grizzlystik name on them. Other carbons are much too light for me.
Yes I'll stick with wood.

[Wudstix]

Doug K, some folks just don't want to take the time to make wood arrows, or wait for a better shot selection.  You are not going to get a good shot on every deer you see, no matter how much you want it or try to justify it. Woods work, they have for years the will continue. I could tell horror stories about Easton and carbon arrows too if marginal shots were pushed.  

 

[Kevin Dill]

There is much more than simple penetration to achieving the end result of a successfully taken game animal. In an unmoving and constant-density target, carbon will have better penetration than wood. My problem is that I've yet to encounter a constant-density game animal that will stand absolutely still until the arrow is all the way in.

There are other and better reasons (I think) to choose carbon if you please. I think the guy who gets the MOST penetration is the guy who gets close, doesn't compromise on his shot selection, and is deadly accurate....regardless of the shaft he chooses.

[Homey88]

Good point Kevin, I really appreciate all the feedback ! Thank you

[ChuckC]

Its kinda a mind game, this "thinking" that we do.  I know you want to know the answer, that's all, but it may not be as simple as all that.

Wood and aluminum and carbon are different critters.  There is the ultimate answer, which is better at penetrating, yes, but there is the alternate answer that we shouldn't lose sight of, that all three of them are fine (and have been proven such).

The finish and thickness of the shaft matters a lot, the substrate being penetrated matters a lot, the broadhead type matters a lot, the arrow flight at the time of the hit matters a lot, the weight of the projectile (and even the profile of that weight distribution) matters a lot, the game type ( large or small) matters a lot, the distance of the shot (and ultimate loss of initial speed and momentum) matters a lot,  the fact that the critter can move at the wrong second, or simply be pushed by the projectile ( and thus move) can matter a lot.

All of these things can affect the penetration of any given projectile as much or more than the actual make up of the arrow.

My head hurts
ChuckC

[trubltrubl]

I posted earlier that I hunt with both. Carbon will out penetrate wood . But like we all are saying a good wood arrow will work very well too. When I use wood arrows for hunting now I use laminated birch or I buy ash wood and cut them 3/8 square and then dowel them with an arrow planer John struck invented and it works great. You get the satisfaction of making an arrow from scratch. I use Canada goose feathers and natural Turkey feathers on the homemade shafts. Ash is tough and fairly heavy. I have made one self nock arrow with a stone head but must admit it is time consuming and not easy. Had a friend help me with that arrow. He makes some of the nicest arrows you will ever see . That stone head arrow will be hunted with my selfbow sometime in the future when the right hunt and theme comes up. If I was using a light weight bow under 50 lbs I would use carbon arrows though . Jmho