Carbon Arrow Advice

[Archer1977]

Hey Gang! I am on the fence which arrow spine to choose, 500 or 600. I have a Dwyers 64" 48@28, it is a close to centercut longbow, my draw is around 27. So I figure around 45lbs. I shoot 3 under if that matters.

Currently I have been shooting full length Beman Centershot 400s. I have bareshafted them and they are definitely nock right, too stiff.

I am on the fence which spine to get, 500 or 600 Easton Axis Traditionals. I want to try to stick close to the 10gpp rule. Also I would like to stick to 125g points, but I am willing to look at heavier points. This setup is primarily is for hunting.

Thoughts?

[olddogrib]

I shoot identical poundage but in a peformance recurve cut past center. I'd guess you could make either work for you by tweaking length and point weight.  If you're a fan of high FOC, I'd go with 500's. I shoot them just under 30" long with 175 gr. heads. You might need a little more weight or some heavy inserts with less center shot.  The 600's may fly fine too, with lighter heads.  If you want a few to play around with send me a PM.  I've got 4 new ones I'd swap for 4 400's for me to tune with.

[NBK]

I shoot a Dwyer original 48@28 also. My best arrows for that bow are Beman ICS 500 cut to 30" with 300gr up front.
Now your skinny shafts will put the arrow closer to center but with only 125 up front I'd go with the 600's.
Hope this helps.

[BigJim]

I would go with the 600's. You can put in a 100 g brass insert and the 125 g points and I will come right in at the 10gpp...it is not a rule, but a great place to be.

If the bow is not cut to center...but close, this will necessitate the weaker spine...even if it was center cut. There are a lot of guys making the .500 spine work on this set up because there was no such thing as .600 for so long. If they would give the .600 a try, they would be a lot happier.
Now if you want a full length arrow (bemans .500s are only 30") you likely can make the .500s work but will likely end up heavier than what you want.

Just advice, but you never know until you try.
bigjim

[ghall80]

What Jim said
I would go 600s as well and now a days there are lots of arrows to pick from in the 600 spine range. Big fan of the Axis or Axis trads!!

[Warden609]

You might try an arrow test kit. Here is a link
  http://www.3riversarchery.com/easton+axis%26reg%3b+traditional%26trade%3b+bare+shaft+test+kit_i6790%2D3_baseitem.html  
Just an option to have on hand. Good luck.

[Archer1977]

Well dang...I ordered 500s because everytime I played around with the Stu calculator the 500s were much closer to what it said I should get. The 600s were always way off. I guess we will see. I will post up on here what I find out.

It is close to center cut and uses FF strings. Not sure how many strands. I would rather have to go a little heavier than lighter.

[NBK]

Like I said earlier, 500's will work if you're willing to go heavy upfront.  (Don't be afraid to, it quiets the bow with all the advantages of increased FOC).  What model of Dwyer are you shooting?  Just asking because the arrows that fly well out of my 48# original show pretty weak out of my #51 dauntless.

[Archer1977]

Its an original. Love the bow, even though it is my first and only trad bow I have, or even shot.

I have seen so much on here on 600s vs 500s. It was hard to decide what to try. Sources vary so much. 3 Rivers chart says a 400 should work, Stu's says a 500 would be best, then people also recommend 600s. This world is much different than the compound world, lol.

[Car54]

Yes...but its a lot more fun-er. LOl

[Archer1977]

I still like my compound, but I enjoy my longbow much more. Trad is much more satisfying.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Archer1977:
Its an original. Love the bow, even though it is my first and only trad bow I have, or even shot.

I have seen so much on here on 600s vs 500s. It was hard to decide what to try. Sources vary so much. 3 Rivers chart says a 400 should work, Stu's says a 500 would be best, then people also recommend 600s. This world is much different than the compound world, lol.

The thing is... like Big Jim explained above. You can make either the 500 or 600 work.  the 500's will need to be longer to get the right flex than the 600's..... the 600's will be lighter weight but you can cut them shorter and add brass....

Just remember something.... arrow length effects spine on a carbon shaft much more than tipp weight..... There are some really good bare shaft tuning videos out there that prove that trimming a bit off your arrow will get the spine perfect, and changing tip weight as much as 50-75 grains won't even effect it. especially on a shorter draw length.... Guys with 30" plus draw lengths, tip weight has more effect on arrow spine......  

You should be fine with the 500's.... just start out full length on bare shaft tuning and you'll be fine..... if they are showing too stiff, don't forget you can thin down your strike plate and gain quite a bit..... Another important thing to remember is to find the perfect brace height on your bow, then tune the arrows to that optimum brace.

Raising and lowering brace height to tune arrows should only be used as a last resort.

[Archer1977]

I understand what brace height is, and that you can use it to "tune" your arrow in if it is slightly off.

However, How do you find the optimum brace height? Is it not what the bowyer recommends for that bow? Or is is more specific to each person?

[NBK]

Technically it's specific to each person, i.e. how we hold the string, what we have on the string, true draw length, etc.  Start on the low end of the bowyers recommended brace height (in your case it'd be about 6 3/4") take a couple of shots then stop and raise your brace a few twists of the string.  Take a few more shots, raise brace again and repeat...
What you're looking for is "the sweet spot" where the arrow leaves the string while in line with the string while it goes through paradox.
You'll know it because the bow will be it's quietest.
FWIW, virtually all of Dave's bows run best at a 7 1/4" brace.  It's what he recommends and another good rule of thumb is to listen to the bowyer!

[Archer1977]

Ok. So do you literally take one of the loops off the tip and twist it? What is the easiest or best way to do this?

[Orion]

Yes.  That's the way you change brace height, twist or untwist the string.  Keep in mind, that you're getting Axis shafts, at least that's what I think you said.  They're extra skinny, meaning that they ride closer to the center of the bow, and that requires more spine.

I think the .500s will be just fine, and you won't have to front load them inordinately heavy, though probably can if you want to. I shoot .500 Axis out of 46-50# longbows and recurves, some cut to or past center and some not. All can be made to shoot like lasers with just a little tip weight juggling, depending on bow weight/configuration.

[Archer1977]

Thanks everyone. Bunch of good folks on here!

[NBK]

Yep. Unstring the bow. Slide the loop off one end and twist. I can never remember clockwise vs counter I just twist whichever way makes the string shorter or longer depending on what I need. With your bow Id start at 7" brace measured from the string to the deepest part of the grip and go from there.  Bet you end at 7 1/4!

[NBK]

Sorry Orion. Didn't see your post. Getting tougher trying to read off of phone screens.  

[Archer1977]

I went ahead and moved brace height to 7 1/4"

Is there a progression to tuning? Brace height, nock point, bare shaft for left and right, verify with fletching?

I shot some today and thought I was seening nock high, but I forgot to shoot bow verticle so I need to re-verify. I assume that shooting canted and a possibly weak arrow would false show nock high...

I shoot 3 under and I have read that you generally want the nock point a little high, to the point the arrow is not level but pointed down a little at rest. Does this cause it to level out when at full draw or does this generally just result in he best arrow flight?