head on shots

[wapiti792]

I passed on this shot at 12 yards last month at a bull elk. I ate tag soup on that hunt. I caught absolute hell from the boys at camp for passing. I can live with myself for the pass, but if I stick that bull and it turns out bad, I'd eat my own guts for a whole year. Things can go bad when the animal is in perfect position...it certainly will go bad if the angle sucks and there's a sternum in the way!

[Flesner]

I'm taking a pass on a front on shot. I've always passed on these shots with archery tackle.

I shot a deer once straight down between the shoulder blades. He got a way. I'll not take that shot again, either.

You do what you think is right, but don't tell me about it or I'm gonna' react like Paul.

[Juniper Bow]

This is really a personal decision. I passed on this same shot a few days ago, got chewed out for passing on a "good" shot by my friend. He would have shot, I'll continue to pass on such shots.
Here are some things that do not seem to be refuted:
1) Frontal shots have a smaller target area than broadside.
2) Chances of hitting the guts with this shot are increased.
3) Chances of pass through (additional blood) are decreased.
And here are some things that not everyone may agree with, but are my opinion.
1) The brisket and ribcage is at an angle that will often deflect an arrow (or even bullet for that matter).
2) If an arrow does go into that little hole and travel through the chest it will be a quick, humane death.
I am a begginer, but have been going with experienced hunting buddies who have dealt with this issue (with varying results).

[brent d.]

I wouldnt even take the shot with a high powered rifle.

[SouthMDShooter]

Hello everyone and thanks for your input to the thread (im the one who started it). When i started this thread i didnt mean to imply i was thinking of taking the shot, and as i said i have always passed on it (just because my Dad has always told me to every since i started hunting even with a gun). I am 18 and have been hunting since i was 12 i have killed 27 deer with my bow and countless small game in that time, with no misses or gut shots (lucky, very lucky, so i wouldnt consider my self as a "new" bow hunter as Mr.Brunner said) and although i know the shot is a lethal one, which has been proven by posts from people on here. Obviosly this is a touchy subject. So i am sorry if this has upset any one on this site...Curtis

[SouthMDShooter]

Also i would like to add to my previous statement i started the thread just to here peoples views and opnions about the shot, negative and positive. Isnt that what this site is about? to learn from others? ask questions? share experinces? please correct me if im wrong...Curtis

[Ia Hawkeye]

C2,
Read Dr. Ashby's articles about shot selection and penetration results, etc. (at top of Pow wow column) He has some really good data. Perhaps you'll change your mind about that shot.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Considering that one lung would be a great outcome on this type of shot, I will pass.

[John Scifres]

All my BS'ing aside, here's my experience with head on shots.  All firearms.  1 rifle load through the spine on a small buck dropped him.  One 12 gauge slug through the spine practically flipped another buck.  One 12 gauge slug from 10 yards grazed a nice buck's chin as he suddenly dipped his head.  The slug was deflected enough to pass only through the shoulder.  He took off immediately on 3 legs and the only thing that kept me from a longer tracking job was a lucky running shot through the boiler room.  

Seems to me like a lot can happen between the time you decide to shoot and the time the arrow gets to the deer.  I like a little more margin of error.  I've passed on every frontal shot with a bow.

[Ray Hammond]

Your question was fine. There's no reason you shouldn't have asked it, Curtis.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "ETHICS"- it has everything to do with common sense.

To everyone considering this as a shot to take:

If getting game at all costs is what we are here for, why not hunt with a firearm? In other words, if killing that critter is such an absolute must that you would consider a marginal shot opportunity because you HAVE to kill it, why not use guns?

Fawns? Who are you kidding? You shoot fawns enough that you would even bring that into this discussion? How many pictures of dead fawns have we seen on this site? Most people are not shooting fawns..they're talking about mature animals.

A normal big game animal's chest is certainly wide enough that if your chest-on shot arrow doesn't hit within a 3 inch circle, its certainly a good chance you will one lung that critter. Add to that the animal is facing you and can react quicker than your arrow can get to it! I don't know how many one lunged animals you've tracked...but in my life I've had a belly full, and I don't want any more.

Combined with personal hunting(and being in Georgia with 10 to 12 tags per season),our nine year old urban deer hunting program has allowed me to participate in nearly a thousand whitetail tracking jobs...thirty or forty of them have been one lunged, shooting at the side of the animal!  

I can tell you that if one of our members took a head on shot, he/she would be on the street so fast their head would spin.

Respect for a living animal is always uppermost in the minds of most hunters I know- and in every hunter I share my camp with. And it shouldn't matter if its a fawn, a yearling, a mature animal, or a world record.

[longbowman]

I get a kick out of this delima.  On the good old boy videos you have Stan Potts.  I watched one video where a huge buck walked by him 3 times at less than 15 yds. and he never let go of an arrow as he held at full draw making noises that sounded like a bad bowel movement.  Afte the deer left he said "Folks I passed on that walking deer because a game animal is to important to take risky shots on."  I would have drilled that deer the first go by since I like a walking shot.  Two season later he had a 200+" buck come in and turn head on and he whispers, "I'm taking him"  and then shoots him.  He turns towards the camera and say, "Folks I never would have taken a shot like that but he was too big to let walk!"  So I guess size sometimes dictates reason???

[MI_Bowhunter]

Longbowman, thats exactly why I no longer buy/watch most hunting videos.

A hunters sense of ethics and reason should apply to ANY animal taken regardless of size, rack, score, etc.

[Izzy]

Curtis,I see no reason you should appologize.You had a question and you asked it.I dont know anyone who has ever taken this shot nor have I but I too was wondering what the results would be.Im glad you asked,thanks.And John Scifres,,,I like the sound of you wolf hunting preserve, would you take me? Ill bring Britney and the Hiltons and well air it on the Spike channel.
                         Izzy

[Longbowz]

I think it was a good question and I for one am glad he asked it.  If you don't ask, you don't learn.

Unfortunately this one sure brought out a rash of strong comments!  LOL Problem is the ethics police showed up in force too and a few should be downright ashamed of themselves.      

Instead of just giving an honest answer to the question, some  decided that it was better to crucify the one asking it.      Sure doesn't do much for the free flow of ideas on this site now does it?.    :rolleyes:  

Perhaps a better way would be to explain the reasons for your opinions rather hitting the one who asked the question over the head with them.

Just a thought.........

[Kingstaken]

Being as short as Too short is, he would have to aim up in such an angle that the arrow would come out the animal a$$ and fly wrecklessly into the air so I see his point.
But us average height guys have taken and made plenty such shots with sucess. Plus makes for an easier cleaning job when everything falls out.  :D

[bentpole]

I personally did this ONCE. Never, ever, ever , will I do it again.I was still shooting a 75# wheely bow. I had a doe coming down the trail right at me I got antsey put the arrow a 30" 2216 or a 2219 dead center of her chest. She took off arrow burried up to the vanes blocking the entry hole. NO Blood what so ever. I looked for hours and never found that deer.

[bmfer]

Perfectly spoken, Longbowz.

[Shawn Leonard]

It depends on the angle of the head on shot, sorry but it does. I shot a nice buck a few years ago and I was in a ladder about 8ft. up. He put his head down and I put one along his spine and it came out by his sack. Got one lung, diaphram and liver. He went about 30 yards, would I do it again, yup it is a fairly simple shot. If I was 3 ft. lower I would not of attempted it. Ethics, are not for us to decide because people are different we will be judged later on. I believe the owner of Rancho Safari's (Cat quivers and such) said he took plenty of shots over 80  yards at animals in his career. He said ya cannot kill'em if ya do not shoot at them and that was in a TBM article, agree or disagree who are we to judge? Shawn

[BRITTMAN]

I have taken that shot over the years 3 diffrent times and recovered all 3 deer but I had a very hard time on the recovery and swore to my self I wouldnt take it again after the last one . The first was with a shotgun at 20 yards and the deer ran about 200 yards , the second was with a compound at 15 yards and the arrows hit him dead in the center of the chest . I was on the ground so the arrow went thru his body long ways and came out his hip near his tail , but still the deer ran about 200 yards . The last was with a rifle at about 50 yards and the bullet hit a little left of center so it wound up taking his frount shoulder almost completly off but the deer still ran about 100 yards . That was early in my hunting days so I learned that although it looks like a great shot it is about the worst shot that you could take .

Mike Britt
PS : The only dumb question is the one never asked so dont worry about asking questions .

[frassettor]

well, I have taken that shot 2 times, and got the animal both times( with my wheels, Before I made the transition to traditional), I was lucky and will never do it again. The margin of error was to great, I was alot younger then and since then have realized how dumd that was. Take someones advise that has done it, DONT, good luck this season