Arrow contact on a Hill bow

[jeffg]

I have a HH Legend Stick 50#@27. I shoot GT 1535 28" long with 225gr up front.
I notice that the arrows are contacting the back edge of the side plate. I thought maybe over spine but they bare shaft great. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
 

[David Mitchell]

I don't see how a 1535 with 225 up front could be over-spined.  I shoot 3555s with 175 up front out of my Hills at that draw weight.

[jeffg]

I don't think they. I am just trying to find out if this is something normal or what.
If they are under spine would it do this?

[Orion]

Definitely not overspined.  I suspect your brace height is rather low. There will always be some wear on the side plate, but it is a bit toward the rear ion your bow.  Could be how the window is cut, but Craig is pretty consistent about the way he cuts them.  

If your brace height is lower than 6 1/4 inches, raise it to at least 6 1/4 or 6 1/2.  I know a lot of folks shoot Hills at a lower brace height, but I shoot mine at 6 3/4 inches.

If you can watch the Hill short 'Points On Arrows',  when the camera is behind him, you can see, especially in slow speed, that the arrows bend into the bow at release, then around the riser. I think what you are seeing is that initial shove of the arrow.  I am wondering why there is no further contact, but that could be because the arrow is sufficiently bent that it is completely clearing the shelf, or acting so stiff that it is not bending back around the bow and shoving on that line until it clears the string and the riser.  I would bet that a 50 pound cedar shaft would have a more even contact.

[wingnut]

Underspined is a definite possibility.  Try a lighter point and see if your problem goes away.

Mike

[Looper]

I'd say your brace height is low, too.

[Cavscout9753]

I would say at those specs your arrow is grossly under-spined and the release is slamming the back part of the shaft into your side plate. Any undue wear on your feathers? I mean dont get me wrong, if theyre flying good for you kudos, but a 1535 with 200+ upfront on a 50# bow (even accounting for the liklihood  that your draw is shorter in a hill bow) that thing has to be a wet noodle coming out of there.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by jeffg:

If they are under spine would it do this?

You bet they will.... I think that's your problem. If you bare shaft those at 20 yards and watch the arrow fly i think you'll see a lot of tail left going on, and most likely a lot of tail wagging too.....  I think you need to come up to 500 spine or 3555's.....

On my high performance long bows most guys shoot 5575's out of their 50# bows, and the EFOC guys have to jump up to 340's..... My static tip RC will fold up a 500 spine arrow at 47#'s like a noodle....... But we are are probably talking about 30-35 FPS difference in arrow speed.

[nineworlds9]

With that much point weight 3555s is what you want Jeff.  Theyre tellin it true.

Im using Axis trad .500s with my Shelton

[58WINTERS]

I've experienced the same thing on some of my Hills the latest is a 66" W.S. 52@27 the other was a 68" Tembo 48# @28. I have 2 other Wesleys 50 @28 and 55 @28 where the contact is more centered. On all but the Tembo I use 3555 29bop with 200 or 250 up front and my feathers can get  ragged but they are 5-1/2's. Arrow flight is flawless but the rearward wear on the side plate bothers me.

[jeffg]

I have to try a stiffer spine.

[Cavscout9753]

58Winters: have you tried turning the cockfeather in? I have to do that for my wesley special. Theres a long-winded technical reason for it, but I don't care, really. With it turned in arrow flight is flawless and it stopped all wear on both the feathers and the plate.

[ScouterMike]

I just got a Hill Legend Stick and have the same wear pattern starting and the arrows I am using are a tad stiff. I am not worried about it at this point. It just seems to be the way the shelf was cut into the bow. The bow shoots as well as any Hill I have worked with.

[jeffg]

Maybe it is the character of this model. They are cut pretty far from center.

The further the arrow gets from center, the more the bow will like slower recovering arrows.  My bows that are a bit heavier, 56@27, but with a 1/2" shorter draw than yours, like 1918s with 160 grain broadheads with glue-in inserts and 55 pound woodies with 160 grain heads, all cut to 27" bop. I would bet that my arrow shelves are cut deeper than yours, 1/8" to 3/16" plus the leather.  I always set my brace at the recommended height and get the arrow to do the rest.  I have been phasing out my aluminum arrows with the intention of going to all Surewoods and someone drops off another bundle of autumn orange 1918s for me.  I don't recall what string you are using, it can make a five pound spine difference.

[jeffg]

I am using a Ten Ring String Rhino FF.
It appears to be cut 1/4" from center with me measuring. The bow does come in lighter than marked 47# instead of 50#@27.
I have tried some 45-50 Surewoods they fly right, to stiff (Left hand shooter). So I picked up some 40-45 the other day to try.

[Orion]

Of course, arrow spine is the most likely culprit.  But, a too low brace height will also cause the arrow to strike the riser.  What do you have your brace height set at?

[jeffg]

6 1/2"

If this is a 66" that should be more than enough. If those Surewoods were 28" or so and had 145 or 160 grain points, they should have been about right on.   Everyone has their own release, what I try to NOT do is lose draw length on the release. The arrow does not take off until the string leaves the finger tips.  Even Howard Hill, when watching in slow mo speed, at times loses some draw in his release as the fingers come forward. I am assuming you cant the bow, shoot split and have the bow deep enough in your hand so the bow lined up to the base of your thumb and not twisting.  A Hill longbow may appear to shoot wide to the shelf side compared to a center shot bow and still have proper arrow flight. When I have been shooting my recurve and my eye gets used to that center shot, my first draw with a longbow throws me a bit, seeing that arrow angled off to side more.  I quickly adjust to it by intentionally using split image aiming.  If a wood arrow is too stiff it will fly loggy when fletched.  I am never sure what to say when when an arrow is said to fly to the right for a left hand Hill style bow or left for a right hand Hill bow.  It may be the shooter that is more used to shooting with a center shot bow without any cant.   When an arrow is too stiff for me, they fly loggy and up and right out of my left hand bows because of the cant.