Newbie Questions

[Doss0311]

I've been target shooting an old Shakespeare Wonderbow X-24 58" 40# recurve that I got several years ago for bowfishing.  Its been so long since I've shot and I never learned much about it so I have a few questions:

1 - How do a longbow and recurve shoot differently?  Why would I choose one over the other?

2 - What range weight do you suggest for hunting South Texas whitetail deer and hogs?

3 - What weight points should I shoot for hunting the above animals?  Whats the difference between shooting light or heavy arrows?

4 - How does the weight of the bow change with different draw lengths?  I'm 6'2" and I shoot 32" arrows; it seems like weights are figured at 28".  Does this mean I'm pulling more #s out of the bow?

5 - Are there any tricks to aiming?  I'm not missing my target bag at 10 yards, but I'm not really shooting groups either.  I'm under the impression that its completely instinctive and muscle memory.

6 - When getting a bow restrung do I just have to order a compatible string of the same length?  The guy at my local shop said they "vary."  Shouldn't a 58" string for a recurve work on my bow?

7 - I don't have a quiver yet.  Should I get a hip or back quiver for target shooting and a bow mounted one for hunting?  Seems like something on my hip or back would be inconvenient in the South Texas scrub.

8 - What is a good mid-range recurve?  I like the looks of the Fred Bear Grizzly.

Thanks for reading my wall of text   :D   , and for your help.

[Killdeer]

I gotta get to bed, can somebody jump in here?

Killdeer  
(Grizzlys are good bows!)

[Charlie Lamb]

Walter... let me get the ball rolling for ya. I'll try to answer in the order the questions were asked.

1. I'm not gonna touch this one. It's a totally personal thing, though I think the learning curve is shorter with a recurve.

2. 45-50 pounds at your draw should suffice for deer and hogs. 50-55 would be better.

3. Light and heavy is relative when talking about arrows. As a general rule, figure 9 or 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight and you'll get excellent penetration.

4. The bow gains weight the further you draw it. Usually you can figure 2-3 pounds per inch over 28". Some bows put on more weight that what I stated.
That's a pretty short bow for your draw and you are likely shooting around 55 pounds if your draw is truly 32".

5. Try this trick. Put a tennis ball on the ground in front of your target at a distance so that when you line the point up on it the arrows hit the target.
Only see the arrow tip in your peripheral vision when you do this. Before long you'll be able to drop the "training aid" and shoot more "instinctively".
Work on consitant form... anchor, full draw, steady bow arm, etc.

6. Typically a 58" bow will use a 54" string. For the best strings go to one of the custom string makers listed on our sponsor list.

7. Bow quivers are fine as are quivers that hang at the side and hold the arrows individually... the GFA quiver is an example of this.  

8. Grizzly's are good bows.

[Doss0311]

Thanks for your help, Charlie.  I really appreciate it.  Its tough being new to traditional shooting.

I'll be receiving a Fred Bear Super Kodaik 55# recurve at the end of this week.  I'm pretty excited about it.  Now I have a few questions about arrows.  I had someone measure my draw length and it turns out to be approx. 30".
If I'll be drawing 55#, I should shoot for 500-550 grain arrows.  I'm having trouble picking out arrows.  I was going to shoot    web page   these arrows with 125 grain points, but its not enough weight.

What weight arrows/points do you recommend?

How do I make my arrows heavier?

How do I figure what spine arrows I should be shooting?


I checked this chart:    http://www.goldtip.com/downloads/2006sizing-chart.pdf     But I wasn't sure if it was completely accurate.

[Allan Hundeby]

Welcome to Tradgang.com - the friendliest forum on the net!  There are literally thousands of years of cumulative experience and knowledge in its members, and Charlie accounts for a great deal of it!      

The goal is to find arrows that will fly true to your target (with no "fish-tailing" or "porpoising") once you've released the arrow and it has finished going through "archer's paradox".  Very basically, the factors that dictate what arrow "spine" you require are:
1. How far "past center" your bow's shelf is cut, and
2. Its draw weight at YOUR own draw length (plus some other minor factors like what string type you use).  

The more weight you place near the front of the arrow, the "weaker" the spine will be.  If you shorten that arrow, it will spine "stiffer".    Carbon arrows tend to have an extremely high strength-to-weight ratio, and alter their spine much more readily from changes in LENGTH, rather than point-weight.  So many people here suggest distributing more of the arrow weight up front with carbons, then cutting of length from the back end in small increments to get them flying straight.  Some even replace the aluminum inserts with 100 grain brass inserts to get a high F.O.C. (front-of-center) balance point.  I think GoldTip has their own specialized inserts where you can thread more weight onto the back of the insert.  I've never tried them.

Just a note: At 6'2", and a draw length of 30", that 58" Grizzly may not be long enough, and cause the string to pinch your fingers excessively at full draw.  Hopefully you won't notice it.

I hope that helps.  Someone who knows more can continue from here.

[Doss0311]

Those arrows with 125 grain points and 100 grain inserts would be about 510 grains.

I'll try them out.  Does that sound like a good place to start?

What bow length would you suggest with a 30" draw?  I've been shooting my 58" Shakespeare and haven't noticed any pinch.  Maybe because its the only recurve I've ever shot.

Would a 60"    Super Kodiak   be better?

[links0311]

I have a Bear Grizzly also and love it. I also have a longer draw (about 30"). I like recurves around the 60" mark, and longbows around 68".

-Links

[Allan Hundeby]

I'm just under 6'0" and somehow I have a 30.5" draw.  I shoot a 60" and a 62" recurve, but honestly haven't been doing this long enough to determine whether something shorter would be better.

[rbbhunt]

Just one thing to add to #5:  Pick the smallest spot you can to concentrate on.  One thing I like to do is throw a tennis ball out and using flu-flus, shoot at it at varying ranges.  Forces you to concentrate on a small spot.

[Doss0311]

I got my new Super Kodiak in tonight!  55#

Can't wait until tomorrow afternoon.

   
   
   
   

[Doss0311]

One more question:

How much shaft should I have past the front of my bow?

I've got about an 1 3/4" hanging out.

[redfish]

For short, the arrow must be long enough so that the broadhead clears your fingers. Otherwise, the biggest effect of arrow length is on spine. Longer arrows are not a problem as long as it is not unreasonable.
I usually get full length arrows and start bare shafting and gradually cutting them down until I get good arrow flight (w/o feathers).
There are a bunch of good trad shooters in the SA area. I would suggest getting together with them to get some first hand help. It will shorten your learning period considerably.

[redfish]

As far as arrows, you may want to keep FOC in mind. The percentage of weight that is forward of center in an arrow will have a lot of effect on how they fly when equipped w/ broadheads.
I just left SA last night. It was about 96 degrees when I got to the airport.

[30coupe]

Originally posted by Doss0311:

How much shaft should I have past the front of my bow?

I've got about an 1 3/4" hanging out. [/QB]

That sort of depends. Some guys like to have just enough that the back of their broadheads touch their finger at full draw...usually 1/2 to 3/4 inches in that case.

However, I wouldn't cut my arrows based on that. Start with them long and trim to get them flying well. Do a search for bare shaft tuning. O.L. has a good method. If your arrows shoot well and the broadhead hits your finger, so much the better. I am more concerned with how they arrows fly than any gimicks.

BTW: The spine will stiffen as you shorten the arrow, so trim a little bit at a time and try it (1/4 to 1/2 inch per cut.

Nice looking bow by the way.

[Charlie Lamb]

Walter... here's a suggestions for arrows that might get you where you want to be spine wise and weight wise a little quicker.

Check with Kustom King Archery and get your self a set of Carbonwood 4000 shafts. Mount your broadhead or field point on a 125 grain steel adapter... a broadhead that weighs around 150 grains will get your around 620 grains total arrow weight and will be great for your new Kodiak.

You are shooting almost exactly the same set up I am and that's what I use and they fly perfectly for me.

Don't buy arrows with plastic fletch like the one's in your link... they'll fly like warmed over crap. You need to be shooting feathers.

[Doss0311]

Thanks for the help, guys!

I'll definitely use it.  And thanks for letting me know about Kustom King Archery, Charlie.  That plastic fletching is pretty crappy.