Just for reference: minimum draw and arrow weight?

[MedicWithAMouth]

I've been going through a lot of threads on here trying to figure out acceptable draw weights and arrow weights for hunting various game, but now I'm a little more confused than before, I think.

I know that the rule of thumb is 10gpp, but i know there's more to it than that.

I'm wondering what you guys would consider the minimum draw and arrow weight combinations to be.  I'm NOT trying to see how light I can go, so much as have something to campare my current gear (or gear I get in the future) too.

For example, if 400 grains out of a 45# is considered good to go for deer, then I know I'll be in the clear with a 450 grain arrow and a 55# bow, even though it isn't 10gpp... Hope that makes sense.  

As long as I'm asking, what would the minimum set up be to take something bigger like moose or elk?

Thanks guys.

[jbpharmd]

I am shooting a 45lb longbow (reflex/deflex and pretty fast) and 475grain arrows with 200grain points. They zip clean through whitetails and medium size pigs (haven't gotten a shot on any big 3-400lbs hogs yet). With a shaving sharp 2 blade broadhead and perfect arrow flight I would be comfortable taking my set-up out on an elk hunt.

[McDave]

For many years, the rule of thumb was 9 gpp. All of my deer have been taken with approx. 9 gpp arrows.  Then we had Dr. Ashby's studies, and his recommendation for the most effective hunting arrow was for increasing the point weight to 10 gpp or more.  But that didn't make 9 gpp arrows any less effective than they ever have been for killing deer, it just concluded that there might be something even more effective than that.

My own personal feeling is that a 45# bow with a 9 gpp arrow is adequate for deer, provided you can place your shot where it should be.  At least I hope it is, because at 71, that's about all I can handle anyway.

[Scott E]

There are minimum legal draw weights for most species.

Whitetails in most states are 40 lbs
Elk in most states are 50 lbs

Fred Eichler killed all 29 species with a 54# recurve.

Watch these videos to learn how to maximize penetration.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npADDOKzI5o&list=PLOgQDVyq0DvxKVwPnA0iLS22ES3_0U__i

[monterey]

The trouble with the 10 gpp guideline is that it takes the light bow shooter into some marginal territory, IMO.

Minimum draw weight here in CO is 35#.  I don't think that a 35# bow shooting a 350 grain arrow is going to end well on elk and probably not so well on deer either!

That's just my opinion.  

I have not even loosed an arrow at a big game animal in the past four years.  A severe leg injury in an accident as well as some shoulder problems, plus those years stacking up (I'm 69 today    ) have kept me from hunting several seasons and have me at a max draw weight of about 40 to 43 lb.

I have gone to a 675 grain arrow set up which is almost 16 gpp for my 43# bow.  That set up is giving me the confidence to hunt elk this year for the first time in four years.  Hopefully there will be some real world results to report back on!

My wife shoots 38 or 39 pounds at 26" plus, with 430 to 450 grain arrows. So far it has been plenty for deer.  Many states have dropped the minimums. Quite often a good performing lighter bow can handle a higher (percentage wise) spine than a super heavy bow to get greater than 10 grain per pound arrow weights.  She is shooting 27 bop 43-45 pound arrows with 125 grain heads and 45-50 27" bop cedars and aluminums with 145 up front. She is getting roughly about the same arrow speed as a 50 pound Hill style bow would give with those same arrows, although the Hill style bow would not like that length of arrow with a relative 30% spine increase.  Minimum bow weights numbers are not relative to total performance numbers when comparing a slower design to a faster design.

[ChuckC]

How about we start changing this to an arrow weight at a certain speed, since each bow is different and there are some bows that are much faster than others.

[Producer]

I am not a bower but I believe that if you want the bow to last and not fail you need to provide enough resistance as not to damage the bow when releashing arrows at full draw. Everyone knows that if you dry fire a bow you can destore it because there is no resistance. That being said, if your arrow is too light over time you can do the same as I see it. I would go with an arrow of a minimum of 450 grains for your 45lb bow. Heavier would be better. People worry about speed but a heavy arrow will retain it's speed over a given distance better than a light arrow and it will buck the wind better also. That is just my opinion.

[MedicWithAMouth]

Thanks for all the input guys! It's definitely good food for thought.

Pavan, your input was especially helpful, since I've got some arrows for my 55# Martin that weigh in at 470-505 grains depending on broadhead weight

Some Martin recurves can tolerate quite stiff arrows.  Of course, every situation will be different to some degree, but one of the guys that I make arrows for shoots a 54 at his nearly 28" Howatt Hunter and he is shooting Wapiti cedars that are 60-65 at 28.5" bop with 135 grain broadheads. Oddly, they also fly perfect out of a really nice 66" mild R/D custom that I gave him that is 52 at his draw.

[damascusdave]

Unless you can place an arrow in the vitals of the game animal in question with certainty all of the other points are moot...Larry Hatfield killed a whole bunch of black bears with a 35 pound fiberglass bow and most likely wood arrows, but then Larry is a very accomplished shooter...placement trumps pretty much every other factor and is the most difficult to achieve for most of us

DDave

[jbpharmd]

Absolutely! You can't kill what you can't hit!

[MedicWithAMouth]

DamascusDave, I couldn't agree more!  That's one of the reasons I asked, my bow seems to like the arrows that I have at about 470 grains. Although I haven't had a chance to bare shaft tune it or do a lot of broadhead practice yet ( probably going to do the bare shafting tomorrow

[md126]

In my opinion, the first thing you need to determine is your comfortable range, or at least what you would like it to be.

What may be an adequate set up at 15yds and closer might not be so effective at 25 or 30. It's not just about arrow weight and poundage (& draw length also)

[MedicWithAMouth]

Md126, I agree completely.

I'm trying to get my set up as accurate as I can be with it, but I also wanted to make sure I was practicing with what I'll be able to hunt with.  The absolute last thing I want to do is take an unethical shot or wound an animal.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

There are so many different factors involved, its really tough to give an "Acceptable" answer to your question.

What some guys are comfortable with and have had good success with on deer at close range, would not even be legal in some states, and not even considered ethical by many archery hunters.

I like the 40# minimum for deer, & 50# minimum for elk law they have in Oregon. But the bottom line is i think shooting the heaviest draw weight you can handle comfortably, & shoot very accurate is the best way to go.... Of course that's going to change from one hunter to the next.

For the serious hunters that are forced to hunt with lower draw weights due to age, injury, or just not accurate enough with heavier draw weights, I think these guys should look real close at the performance their lighter draw weight bows are getting and try and come up with a higher performance bow that will do the same job of a heavier one.....

I don't care how heavy a bow you have, if you archery hunt enough years, you are going to wound and loose a few animals..... It happens all the time.
If it makes you feel any better though. rifle hunters wound and loose a lot more animals every year by far than archery hunters do.....

[MedicWithAMouth]

Good news: turns out my bow really liked the 160 grain Eskimos, so I can get it up to 508 grains, not including the vanes, nock, and inserts. Now I just need to find 160 grain screw in field tips.

For future reference though, it sounds like so long as I stick with 45+ pounds and 500+ grains,  the equipment will do the job if I do my part

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by MedicWithAMouth:
Good news: turns out my bow really liked the 160 grain Eskimos, so I can get it up to 508 grains, not including the vanes, nock, and inserts. Now I just need to find 160 grain screw in field tips.

For future reference though, it sounds like so long as I stick with 45+ pounds and 500+ grains,  the equipment will do the job if I do my part

Don't tell anyone, but I have killed a hog and a deer with a 475 grain arrows(with 2 pass throughs on the hog and the deer didn't even know he was hit(literally)). He just turned and started walking away.  


Some things I don't understand..

Why is it all about weight?
Wouldn't speed and weight trump just weight?

For instance, I shoot a lot of competitions.  I always aim for around 9gpp because of the flatter trajectory.  I typically shoot some where between 50-55 pounds which puts me any where from 450-525 grain arrows, PERFECTLY TUNED.  

Don't get too caught up on weight.  Keep it above 8.5 gpp and you're fine imo.  Now, do use some common sense and don't go hunting cape buffalo with a 8.5gpp arrow, though I bet it would kill it.  (someone needs to try it)  

[Bjorn]

My 12 yr old son pulled about 33# and killed a nice sow with a plus 500 gn Cedar arrow; under 20 yd shot.
GPP is pretty meaningless hunting with light bows.
I don't recommend going low# but when everything else is covered it works.