Your Thoughts On Shooting Sow Bears

[Whitetail Addict]

Black bear season is fast approaching here in Ny, and I'm getting fired up about it.

I haven't killed many bears over the years, and I've always passed up any sows I've seen, that have had cubs with them. They're legal where I hunt in the Adirondacks, but It's never seemed right to me to kill them. I always figured that the cubs, being so small, wouldn't have much chance without momma.

I spoke with a wildlife biologist recently, that told me that the cubs are self sufficient by five months old, and any cubs that were left on their own during the summer, and especially by the September bear season, would be fine on their own.

He told me that they know everything they needed to know by this point, and would even instinctively search out a den for winter.

This has me rethinking my views on it. That's not to say that I've changed my mind, but rethinking it.

We can't use bait here in NY, and I've generally had to work my tail off for the few bears that I've killed over the years, and it would be nice not to feel that I need to pass on them when they can be so few and far between.

I don't mean what I said in the above statement to sound like I think baiting is a piece of cake either. I imagine you'd have to choose the right place, and I'm sure It's work lugging bait, and keeping up with it. It just seems like you'd have more opportunities, at maybe several different bears, and a better chance that they'd be back to the same place when you could be there. Where I've had to walk for miles some years, just to find a place that they're/were using. Then it's a crap shoot whether they'll still be there when season opens, and then I have to be there when, and if they do show up, with the limited time I have to hunt.

So... What are your thoughts?

Bob

[Etter]

Bear hunting is my main passion and we have plenty in the n ga mtns. We are not allowed to kill sows with cubs and I wouldnt anyway but Ive had to pass up a good many bears because they had cubs.  I have seen some really really small cubs with sows even in september that Im sure wouldnt make it and Ive seen some cubs that I couldnt say for sure werent just other bears feeding together.

Youre probably right. Most of them would probably survive but bears are extremely intelligent and bonding animals. They obviously mourn loss so I just couldnt do it. A deer to me is just an overgrown rabbit whereas a bear is close to the great apes i telligence wise. In the end, its what youre comfy with.

[Jerry Russell]

I would disagree completely with any biologist that says a cub is self-sufficient in it first fall season as that is(at best) a partial truth. It may be well able to find food for itself but the sow provides crucial predatory protection in its first year of life. Very few will survive without this protection as predatory males have but one single fear- the angry sow. Under normal/natural conditions, a cub will stay with the sow until its second summer. There is a reason in nature for that.

I cant begin to imagine shooting a sow with a cub under a year old.

[Jerry Russell]

[Whitetail Addict]

That's exactly how I've looked at it Jerry, and It's never seemed right to me.

Bob

[Possum Head]

I dont even shoot does with small yearlings but will bust a yearling at the drop of a hat. How do larger cubs taste and is there a size limit? Pardon my ignorance as coastal Ms. has no season as of now. Most bears seen here were introduced by DWF officials and many are collared.

[Sean B]

Also beware that it is unlawful to take a bear in the southern zone if it's in a group of 2 or more.

[Izzy]

I don't believe that biologist either. The bear guides from Maine that I hunted with lived with bears for their whole lives always said to kill a sow with cubs, you may as well kill the cubs too because they aren't gonna last til even denning time. I'm pretty sure if you wound up killing a sow with cubs you'd have to run the cubs from her carcass.

[Sean B]

Izzy, every Maine guide I've ever spoke with said the same. This years Cubs will not survive alone. I'll also check with Jim Akenson. He's a wildlife biologist and the Ores of the PBS. I'm certain that a 5 month old cub will not make it.

[Daz]

The policy in BC is that a sow accompanied by cubs of any age cannot be harvested by a hunter, and if a sow that is habituated (problem bear) is killed by a CO, the cubs are killed as well because they will not survice one their own if they are less than 14 months old.

Your bio is obviously an avian specialist.

[Whitetail Addict]

Most of you are confirming what I've always suspected. Why would this be legal then? It makes no sense to me.

[JimB]

It's been said but the biologist doesn't know what he's talking about unless he meant a year and 5 months.I know your bears are more than 5 months by hunting season but a 5 month old cub has only been out of the den it was born in for a couple weeks.It is barely the size of a house cat and is still nursing.Even in the Fall,at 8 months or so,it has a lot to learn about where the food sources are those last weeks before denning etc.Boars will kill cubs in a heart beat and at this young age,cubs aren't as attentive as they will be if they survive to get older and the mother's constant vigilance is what keeps them alive.

Even at 1 1/2 years,they aren't the brightest and many get themselves in trouble or get killed shortly after being emancipated.There is a reason why cubs stay with sows till 1 1/2 years old.Breeding age sows are also the best bait there is for mature boars.

[Yellow Dog]

A fall bear with cubs would put the cubs at a little over a half year old since they're born in the den around January/February timeframe. They'll stay with the sow and den back up with her the following winter. She'll run them off when she comes back into heat the following June. In Michigan it's illegal to kill a sow with cubs. Kill the sow and you've killed the cubs.

Little guys I caught on trail cam in Quebec. Note the date and the size of the little guys.

 

[Cavscout9753]

No biological statistics behind my opinion, I just wouldn't. I just don't feel the need to kill anything strong enough that'd I'd do it in front of it's kids. I don't look down on anyone that would, it's just not in me. I'm not out there to waste my time any more than the next guy (or gal), but there's just sometimes the game makes it in a "safe zone" with me, up to but not limited to: kids with it, it being in water, it being caught up or prevented from escape in some way, and laying down or sleeping. They're just personal limitations though, and I don't expect or care if anyone elses follows them.

[ron w]

I was told in Quebec this year on Bear Quest #9 that if a cub was 50 pounds it could survive on it's own. Now I would think a 50 pounder would be last years cub........Plus at that point you need to know what a 50# cub looks like. But it is a thing that only you can decide at the moment of the hunt.

[tracker12]

PA has a bunch of bears.  They kill upwards of 3000+ each year in a 3-4 day season.  All bears be in boar, sow, cubs are legal.  Bear season is as good as ever.  I am no biologist but based on PA success I would think it does not matter.

[Nantahala Nut]

It sounds like that biologist only gave half the truth.  I am sure a 5 month cub is "capable" of surviving, but I am more sure that it is not likely to survive.
I have a soft spot for the bears so I definitely would not kill one with a cub.  They get hunted so hard with bait and dogs that they have garnered my sympathy. Even though there is a bear near Hot Springs NC walking around with my cooking pot he stole from camp!

[Izzy]

I killed a boar in the Adirondacks that was tooth aged by NYSDEC to be 22 months. I guess you could call him a cub but he was alone, I figure you could compare him to a button buck chased off by a doe.

    He wasn't the wariest animal and looking back I think he was just recently chased off by the sow that birthed him, and if he hadn't run into me or a big boar he may have been of age to survive but again, he was alone.

[mangonboat]

Sows with cubs are illegal in WNC. By the second spring the cubs are probably going to make it but I can tell you from experience that if they lose mama before June (around 16 months)  they are the most stupid, pathetic moochers and likely to become nuisance bears in populated areas. Our mast was so good last fall that the pregnant sows had 3 or more cubs this winter...the little rascals are everywhere.

[saltwatertom]

I would like to know where that biologist got his opinion.
Here is is not legal to take any sow with cubs. Also, those cubs the biologist talked about will NOT survive. They do not have the skills to make it on their  own and they would be fodder for the next boar ( or coyote, bobcat, etc ) that came along. Sounds like poor management that will lead to a crashing bear population.