some peoples nerve...

I have a 308 win Remington automatic with a Redfield scope, it was a gift because someone thought that I should have one. I think it is terribly unfair that I cannot use it during the Iowa gun season.  The law is unfair and prejudiced against us 308ers, those shotgun hunters cannot hit the broadside of a barn past 300 yards, like I can with my 308.  gerrke 145 is right,  we should welcome crossbows, if they are the definitive answer to taking ethical shots.  Of course, when I see a fellow and his buddies taking 500 yard lob slug gun shots at a buck across my farmer friend's field, that they do not have permission to hunt on, and then the next bow season I see them unpacking their crossbows at a public hunting area. I am suppose to automatically think that they chose to use a crossbow because they want to take ethical shots, using g145's logic.  Many of the most considerate and ethical compound hunters that I have met, did not jump at the chance to hunt with crossbows, they became traditional bowhunters.

[Jon Stewart]

A long time friend of mine (50 years) and bow hunter has a bad heart so he went to the crossbow. He told me that shooting deer with that thing at 50 yards is like shooting fish in a barrel..  He said all you do is put the scope on the deer, take the safety off and pull the trigger.  His words not mine.

Now how can you call that "bow" hunting.

This is a verbal battle that will go on until the next best thing comes along. I just wonder what that is going to be.  Someone did tell me there were arrows on the market for $450.00 a dozen???

[Gehrke145]

Pavan, I agree with u, slob hunters suck.  I'm more of a big picture guy I guess.  And trust me I'm not pro Xbow, it takes me long enough to get a good tag here as it is!

[fnshtr]

Introduction of crossbows into the dwindling archery season DOES affect our bow hunting. Check out Ohios drastic drop in deer population. Certainly there are other factors also, but a 50% drop in population in the last 10 years is NOT a good thing for bow hunters.

I am not against anyone using the weapon of their choice, but WV has a separate season for MLs and center fire rifles. Should be the same for cross guns and bows. Our archery season continues to shrink and will shrink even more with the most recent introduction of crossbows into our archery season.

Deer are not managed for hunters anymore, but rather for the $$$$. We have a strong insurance lobby that would like to eliminate the deer population.

We are all entitled to come to our own conclusions.

I'll not debate the issue further.
Have a great day and good luck hunting!

One can always say that it is the hunter and not the weapon that is whether they are ethical or not ethical. However, in many places hunter over crowding is real issue, it takes all of the adventure out of the hunt.  On our public hunting lands and many of the private tracks there is intense competition for hunting space and locations.  Some of the people that gravitate to the easy way in my neighborhood are not ethically fit enough to call themselves hunters, harsh perhaps, but it is the truth.  I have too many examples to list them all here, but I will give one.  A man that I have known all my life, went to crossbows the first time his shoulder felt stiff and he could get the permit, put up fake illegal tree stands at the base of a ravine that he was hunting. Nice bright new wood with what looked like they could be just leverage stands if they were made out of metal.  He even strapped on 2x4 steps to access them in a solid but barely legal method. It all looked ingenious, two bright and shiny wood stands right there for anyone to use. The problem was they were designed to fall and he was proud of them when I caught him putting them up, he put them up to keep other hunters out of 'his' ravine.  As a friend, he warned me to not use them.  The reason for this, is there were two Pope and Young bucks running that area, and even though he had 500 acres of private land all to himself, he wanted those bucks.  I climbed up one the next day and put some weight on it, it crashed to the ground. I kicked the other out as well and carried the wood to junk pile of a neighboring farm.  We have a one either sex tag in Iowa, and later both of those bucks were shot in consecutive days by a longbow and recurve shooter, he covered the area with legal tree stands, mostly so no one else had a good place to hang their own tree stand. One 60 acre piece of Iowa and two slob hunters, one with a crossbow and the other with a longbow.

[Ron Vought]

Correction....its a crossgun! It's also not archery equipment.

Ron

[Michael Arnette]

They should never be called archery equipment. Oklahoma legalized them in 2009. The bowhunters of Oklahoma were not consulted. I thought it would be awful but really didn't notice a difference for the first couple years.
I am noticing it more recently as crossbows have become more popular among previous gun hunters and they are learning to use them and hunt with them.
This last year I saw a bunch of them hunting public land and every gun hunting friend I can think of has gotten a deer with one. They will have an effect wether we like it or not. They are purely more effective and incredibly easy to use effectively with very little practice.
I recently picked up an Oklahoma outdoor publication and outlined all the best crossbows to advertise them to new hunters. All of the crossbows highlighted shot over 370fps!! One of them over 400fps!!!
BTW...someone mentioned the historical war between armies armed with longbows vs crossbows. It is interesting to note the while the longbow was more effective than the crossbow in the hands of skilled archers, the crossbows effectiveness was found with its ease of use...anyone could pick it up.
Historically as the wars progressed the longbow lost out due to the lack of trained longbow archers and was replaced in the English army by the crossbow because any joe blow peasant could shoot it well.
That really is the issue of the crossbow...it shoots just like a gun and will ever be more popular and easier to learn to use thus attracting more hunters while at the same time making each of them more effective wih legal equipment.

[EWill]

Wow, you reacted better than I would have.
To suggest that using trad bows is unethical just burns me up.
Well, now I"m irritated.

[ChuckC]

Killin.  There is no doe season in much of Wisconsin this year and in the UP MI.  Too few deer.  The herd was not always this large and it will be small again.  Kill too many deer and they shorten or close the season.  Make any sense yet ?

We have a long season because we don't kill all that many deer.  If that changes, so will our season.
ChuckC

[Ron Vought]

ChuckC -

Agreed. Been saying this for years now but nobody cares until it happens. Instead were all hunters and should unite. When your weapon potentially has a negative impact on the archery season this is where the unite thing ends....no sugar coating it.

Ron

[Mr. fingers]

Micheal Armette ht it on the head!
I don't believe x bows should be allowed,during archery season. The reason we archers have a nice long season is archery is or was a lot harder to master than a rifle. A crossbow is not hard to master. I see gun hunters wanting to hunt during the archery season but don't want to do the work of learning and spending time to learn. In all actuality they could,pick up a modern compound and learn pretty dang fast. But even that is to much why shoot a compound when they can pick up a crossbow and go hunting.
It's equivalent to golf making the holes bigger so more people can be successful and thus attracting more  people to the sport so someone can make more money!
Anyone of us could pick up an Xbow and increase or sucess rate but we don't we do what we do because it is a skill to learn and learn. And when we have success its,so much sweeter. Bowhunting is about how close not how far........sorry for babbling I'm gonna go wash my truck.

[northern lights]

As a fellow Pa. bowhunter have to agree with what Ron just said, also had this comment made to me by a neighbor few seasons ago, I was practicing  with one of my recurves and he sorta snickered and said my x-bow is all sighted in and I don't have to waste time practicing, at first I was kinda ticked but have learned through the years people like that aren't worth me getting worked up over and later actually felt a little sad for him cause he didn't understand just how much fun I was having and how much I love shooting a stickbow, better yet how much more most trad. guys/gals know about woodcraft and deer cause we do gotta get close and that's the thrill and mystic of it for me.

[Ron Vought]

Northern Lights - Most I know who shoot a crossgun don't care about having fun....its all about increased opportunity, instantaneous success and less work. Mainly a short cut into the archery season.  

BTW go ask any of them if there was a chance the archery season would be shortened because the crossgun harvest exceeded biologists expectations would they stop using the crossgun....you will hear silence. They just don't care about the archery season or the impact. Might sound harsh but its the truth. I have debated this with many crossgun hunters and the results all came back the same.

Ron

[ISP 5353]

You handled it much nicer than I would have.

[Sam McMichael]

The bottom line is that I don't really care what a guy hunts with as long as he does so legally. That said, due to the advanced technology and mechanical precision involved, I don't think X-bows or modern in-line black powder rifles should qualify as "primitive" weapons - my opinion only, not an opening for more debate. I think Maddog was correct when he observed that the original issue in this thread was the condescending jab at the ethicalness of a longbow.

[J-dog]

Originally posted by centaur:
A title of a Wensel book comes to mind…"And the Horse You Rode In On"

Yep!

[Cyclic-Rivers]

There are always people quick to criticize other people's choices in equipment, no matter what they may shoot.

Sorry you had to deal with one who was a customer.

I don't agree with crossbows being included into archery seasons but I more disagree with unethical hunters in the woods with any equipment.

[Archer1977]

I think crossbows are cool in their own right. I do think they should have their own season though. Some crossbow guys may just be using one because they are just not fully confident with their tradgear yet and want to make ethical kills. No reason for people to bash each other in either case. Sounds like the OPs guy was just a turd.

[Michael Arnette]

It's akin to legalizing live bait in a trout area that used to be fly fishing only...the results are a reduction of the quality of the experience for everyone

[Nantahala Nut]

This really turned into an anti-crossgun thread.  I think naturally the traditional archer has a chip on their shoulder toward the crossgun guys.  It takes little to no practice and it has drawn in a lot of lazy/ poor quality hunters we would all just as soon not see in the woods during our season.  

To the OP: You handled that with a grace most of us could not.  Be proud of the work you put in and your love for hunting in a purer form.  That is what traditional archery has come to symbolize for me.  A lifestyle and an ethos.