Longbow n00b - First Experience Today - Need Guidance

[deputy865]

Made the switch to traditional archery after some complications with compounds and I'm never looking back!

Bow arrived to me today, Fred Bear Montana, 64", 55# and I couldn't be happier with my first longbow.

After receiving, I loaded up and went to my local archery shop in seek of help getting me going. The guy there was really helpful, so I put my trust  in him. He properly set up my knock point, measured my draw (28"), recommended arrows, cut them, installed points and let me shoot at the range.

I didn't do too bad, but I noticed my arrow flight wasn't exactly straight. The arrows hit their target straight on, but the flight was a bit funky.

He recommended me some Beman Centershot 340 carbon arrows and I chose 125 grain field tips.

I think this is where I went wrong, I'm guessing my arrows are not only too light, but too flimsy. I just dropped $75 on them and even though they are just some practice arrows for me, I want to be confident enough in them to hunt with.

I've read and watched guys loading their carbons with some poly rope to add some weight, but the rope doesn't add any spine...

So what should I do?  Try to swap/return the arrows for something more proper or modify them?

I fully intend on going with and only with woodies in the future, but the archery shop I will be going to doesn't carry them (or much of traditional gear)... But it's the only shop for quote some way!

Thanks!

[Florida lime]

Originally posted by deputy865:

 Fred Bear Montana, 64", 55#... measured my draw (28"),...
He recommended me some Beman Centershot 340 carbon arrows and I chose 125 grain field tips...
I think this is where I went wrong, I'm guessing my arrows are not only too light, but too flimsy.

 

I'll let others narrow things down better, but I'd say for a 28" draw and 125 grain field points,  you are way too stiff .   :D

[Jerry Jeffer]

If you are planning on using only wood, go online and order some in expensive shafts that match your spine needs and stat getting used to making woodies.

[deputy865]

Originally posted by Florida lime:
 

Originally posted by deputy865:

 Fred Bear Montana, 64", 55#... measured my draw (28"),...
He recommended me some Beman Centershot 340 carbon arrows and I chose 125 grain field tips...
I think this is where I went wrong, I'm guessing my arrows are not only too light, but too flimsy.

 

I'll let others narrow things down better, but I'd say for a 28" draw and 125 grain field points,  you are way too stiff .    :D  [/b]

Really!? So maybe heavier points and/or load my arrow?

There is so much that goes into this, so I think I'm over thinking what needs adjusting for optimal flight/shooting.

[Hot Hap]

Agree-way to stiff. Try a higher weight insert and a higher weight point. Hap

[M60gunner]

my 50# at 28" Montana uses 500 spine shafts like yours only Easton Axis. My arrows are cut to 29" . You could front load those arrows like suggested above. At least 100grain insert and 175 grain point to start.
I am sorry to read you are learning with your pocket book. Many get discouraged and walk away. I hope you can use what you have until you feel you need new arrows for hunting.

[Hud]

You might get in touch with another traditional shooter in your area that can stand behind you and watch. There are several things you can try, including adding weight up front to see if the flight improves. Take a look at the following by one of our sponsors:
   http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/

[Hud]

Typically, if the shaft is stiff, you can add weight at the point, not to the whole shaft. also, lower the string height (untwist 5 turns at a time), recheck the nocking point per Elite Arrows.

[Mryan2176]

Yeah, way too stiff. I'm not sure you can ever get them weak enough. I'd stick 300 grains or so up front and try, but im betting they might still be stiff. I'm shooting a Don Dow that's 55 @ 28 and I draw just shy of 29 and the centershot 400s needed 300 up front to bare shaft right for me. However, spine requirements vary from shooter to shooter. I would swap them for 400s if possible. The centershots I have shot more stiff than goldtip or Easton 400s.

[brohymn2]

I had a 55 lbs black widow and shot 400's and still found those too stiff.  What about getting some cheap aluminum arrows until you make the move to woodies

[sticksnstones]

First off, welcome to Trad Gang! This is the best place to post questions when you don't know where to turn, and searching the archives will probably find 99% of the info you are looking for.

Second thing, this whole journey will be a lot easier if you can link up with someone who shoots a longbow locally. Michigan Longbow Association has members all over the state (actually many states and several foreign countries too boot.) Anyone who has shot traditional for even a year or two will be far more helpful than anyone at a wheel shop no matter how good their intentions. We've got a sub forum here on TG, feel free to start a thread there if you want to try to meet up at a range with someone.

Last thing is just a general "what would I do in your shoes" advice. Carbon is a pretty good way to start off. If you have a dozen shafts already I'd do the following:
1) they do have feathers and not vanes, right? THIS IS A BIGGIE!
2) screw in 250 grain points. Right now you are dangerously low in GPP and I'll bet your bow is loud as all get out. This will also soften up the spine quite a bit, but it still won't be right.
3) practice plinking with those arrows at short range, focus on the fundamentals, beat up those carbon arrows while you are getting the basics down. Hopefully you've found a shooting partner by about this point.
4) after this you can look at different carbons, aluminums, or wood. Take the time and work with someone who knows longbows and wood arrows. We are lucky to have a few really good resources here in the mitten! Again, if you have a little more experience under your belt you will be able to know better what you need.

Have fun, post or PM when you get stuck.
Thom

[deputy865]

Thanks for the tips!

I'm hoping they will allow me to trade in for something less stiff. I was just assuming that the lower the spine number, the less stiff it was....

I'd much rather go with something less stiff than put a ton of weight at the front of these arrows.

[Scott E]

Way way way too stiff. You need a 400 if you're going to shoot 125 grains,

He gave you a spine that would be fine with a compound but is way to stiff for a longbow.

Your options are to get new arrows or switch to a heavier point. I would start with a 200 grain point and see if that helps. If they are still flying bad go to a 250 grain point.

You won't be able to find field points that heavy at the local shop so check out some of the traditional vendors here. Big Jim's, RMS Gear, 3 Rivers Archery

[Scott E]

Originally posted by deputy865:
Thanks for the tips!

I'm hoping they will allow me to trade in for something less stiff. I was just assuming that the lower the spine number, the less stiff it was....

I'd much rather go with something less stiff than put a ton of weight at the front of these arrows.

A lot  trad shooters shoot more than 150 grains for point weight. It really helps with penetration and arrow flight.

The higher the number the weaker the spine. 600 is weaker than 340.

You want your total arrow weight to be around 500 grains to 600 grains.

[Scott E]

Link to a spine chart for traditional bows

 http://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdf

[MnFn]

Consensus seems to be too stiff and this is probably right, but I would not give up on them -try to add the weight up front.  I personally like 340 spine with some of my bows.  I think they can be made into a very good arrow.

You said you are getting "funky flight", Just my experience but I can get poor flight from other things as well.  

1. Too much pressure on the string with my ring finger.
2. Also try shooting cock feather in against the bow- that often helps me to get better flight.
Keep trying- you will get there, and enjoy the ride!
Oh, and welcome!

[dbd870]

Yeah, those are very stiff and I agree with trying something in the 300gr range up front.

[deputy865]

I'm guessing it's going to be more beneficial to me to get the proper stiffness of arrow instead of adding tons of weight up front?

[Mike Gerardi]

Yes.

[9 Shocks]

Montanas have relatively shallow cut shelves as well...55lbs at 28"s, I'd honestly try a .500 spine arrow but really you'd probably do better with a .400 with around 200-250 grains up front.