A few tuning questions

[TexasStick81]

I'm looking forward to learning more about tuning. I've been shooting trad for about 10 years now but have been shooting AD's for about the past 6 so I've done very little tuning.  I've read quite a bit about it and watched videos but I'd like clarification on a few things.  

Some guys seem to use 1 or 2 bareshafted arrows where as others seem to use 3 fletched and 3 bareshafted and compare along the way.  What's the case for and against using the fletched arrows?  

It seems to me that with the bareshaft you are watching arrow (and nock) flight rather than nock placement in the target since the material of the target may change the nock placement once it's hit.  If that's the case, it seems that you could get a reasonably well tuned arrow that's not flying nock right or left, up or down, too badly but what about fine tuning? At some point do they look like they are flying straight but possibly still hitting slightly left or right?

Finally, curious about the specs I'm considering.  I'm shooting a 55@29 Centaur triple carbon that I draw to 29.  I'm getting the GT trad blems from Big Jim.  I'd like an overall arrow weight around 550 and I have been using 250 up front with my two current BH set ups.  Jim has recommended the .400 spine left at full length to start.  Anyone shooting a similar set up and what have you found to fly well for you?

Thanks.

[AZ_Longbow]

The more arrows the better chance of getting a true average. If your forms perfect one is enough. Me I'm not perfect do I use 3 bare 3 fletched field and 3 fletched broad head. For the bare shaft watch the flight and if it hits the same spot as the fletched shaft. To me the knock after it hits mans nothing the target causes the shaft to flex. Jim sounds pretty right start long and trim. I use my bareshaft    and cut from the nockend till they get close to great flight. Some use plastic wrap on the insert so they can pull the points and adjust. I recomwnd a field point test kit.
Good luck and have fun with it.

[TexasStick81]

I'd love to cut from the nock end but I do use wraps so I think I'll be left with hot melt and taking inserts in and out, a pain but probably one I won't be able to avoid.  

Do you also cut and adjust the fletched shafts as you go along?

[Stump73]

Your bareshafts should same length as fletched shaft. So if they are weak you cut them about 1/8" at a time to stiffen them or reduce point weight.  You dont want to cut them until you know how they fly. Be sure and buy the hot melt that big jim sales and you wont have any trouble with them pulling out.

X2 fieldpoint test kit.

I tune the bareshaft and fletched shafts together to be sure they hit the same spot. Once I get them close at 25 yds then I ditch the bareshaft and shoot fletched shafts with fieldpoints along  with fletched  broadheads when they both hit the same spot at 35yds im done.

DON'T SHOOT A BARESHAFT WITH A BROADHEAD ON IT! There's no telling where it would go without having fletching to guide it.

[AZ_Longbow]

I cut the bareshafts till they look to fly straight. Then I use the olasic wrap on the fletched inserts. I use a soft foam block for tuneing. I use wraps as well but I use electrical tape in the bare shaft tune. So I can cut and add as I need to. I use both Easton Axis and gold tip kenetics. Not sure if the hotmelt would pull out clean from the axis. The goldtip should be fine. I just find that the wrap around the insert is really easy for me to mess with. I'd shoot gold tip for everything but I need .260 or .250 spines. And gt stopped selling them other than the 200 kaos to bad there short from the factory

[TexasStick81]

What are you guys using to heat the hotmelt once you're trying to remove the insert?  Any concern about heating the carbon shaft?

[AZ_Longbow]

Little alcohol burner. Made mine from girlfriends old parfume bottle and a strand of 100% cotton from a mophead.

[kevsuperg]

Originally posted by TexasStick81:
What are you guys using to heat the hotmelt once you're trying to remove the insert?  Any concern about heating the carbon shaft?

There is concern for heating the carbon, screw a field point into the insert and warm that over a flame, I like an alcohol burner.  Just heat the tip enough that the insert releases. Use pliers to pull the point.
 To install, again use a field point screwed to an insert, warm the insert enough to melt the glue from a stick, once the glue on the insert is runny push it into the shaft then cool it with a wet rag

[kevsuperg]

Duplicate

[hunterjrg]

I have a 60" Centaur Triple Carbon Elite that's 53@28" and I draw 29". My current setup is a full length 400 spine arrow with a 250 grain Cutthroat bh. I use 3 5" lw shield cut feathers from gateway. I don't cut shafts or bareshaft. This is by far my favorite bow.

What is going on, Zane? I hope all is well up your way.

I'll start my part off by saying that I am not a bareshafter. I am a paper tuner. I shoot thru the paper and let the paper tell me what I need to change. Than after I get things right, I shoot broadheads to verify that everything is perfect. I use fletched arrows for all of that.

I shot a 32" GT XT Hunter shaft with 100gr insert and 150gr point from my [email protected]" sarrels Blueridge longbow. I agree with Jim that the .400's are probably the way to go, and think that while tuning, you will end up having to cut them down a bit to get them right. Only tuning will tell you exactly how much they need to be cut down though!

Bisch

Originally posted by TexasStick81:
What are you guys using to heat the hotmelt once you're trying to remove the insert?  Any concern about heating the carbon shaft?

Use Big Jim's hot melt for your inserts, and when you need to remove one, do like stated above with the field point and heat. With Big Jim's glue you do not need to apply enough heat to damage a shaft, and this glue can be used for permanent insert install, not just for tuning. I use a porpane torch. I have damaged shafts trying to get inserts out that were super glued or epoxied in, but never damaged one where the insert was installed with hot melt.

Bisch

[TexasStick81]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.  It sounds like I'm on the right track.  I ordered the shafts from Jim last night so I'll update as the process is coming along.

Hey Bisch, all is well here.  Been a hectic past year.  Really looking forward to being able to get in the field more this year.  Hope all is well down south.

[damascusdave]

From my experience, unless that Centaur has a very low grade string on it, you are going to find 400 spine arrows to still be too weak when cut to 30 inches with 250 grains up front...the proof though is always in the shooting...your comment about target material does have merit unless one is using a relatively new Rhinehart foam target such as my Rhinoblock...as long as the arrow goes into virgin foam it will give you a true reading...the more I shoot the more I find I want a bareshaft reading that is slightly weak and slightly nock high...this seems to work great once you fletch those arrows...I try to keep at least one arrow out of each batch unfletched to confirm my earlier findings...nothing compares to the feeling of confidence that gives you, and at the moment of truth on game confidence trumps perfect tuning every time...a lot of game has been killed with arrows with less than perfect flight and great shot placement on a relaxed animal

DDave

[TexasStick81]

I hope you're wrong about the 400's DDave since they are already on the way!   If that is the case then I guess I'll likely be backing down the point weight to them stiff enough.  I'd like to end up around 550 total weight and I'm not sure if that will be possible if I have to go down in point weight.  Oh well, I guess we'll find out.

[AZ_Longbow]

The fletch and wraps will help stiffen the spine. As well. More weight on back end does that. Even if the 400s don't work you'll have them to use on your next bow... That's what in always tell myself.

[AZ_Longbow]

Ohh forgot to say. You can use non fast flight strings or add more silencers as well to slow them down if there still to weak. Had to do that on my buffalo to shoot .300s with 300gr heads

[damascusdave]

Exactly what I was referring to with my comment about the string on that Centaur...I will simply use the example of my Kodiak Deluxe...it tunes very nicely with a B50 string and 500 spine arrows and with its well built BCY-X string it needs 340 spine arrows, not at all what I was expecting from a bow that draws a measured 46 pounds...the 400 spine Super Slams I bought for that bow would not even tune with 125 grain points...one of the big reasons I have so many bows (now more like 30) is that I have so many arrows I want to match a bow to

DDave

[TexasStick81]

So I wanted to follow up with some results and questions.  As a reminder the set up is:

Centaur triple carbon 55@29
18 strand BCY-X 2 bundle Flemish
GT traditionals
250 up front

So I started at full length and made some 1/2 then 1/4 cuts as it got closer.  As I got down to about 30 I started shooting fletched along side bareshaft.  I ended up at 29 11/16 (got off the round numbers apparently)

Given that you're watching arrow flight not nock placement at impact, how can you ever really feel like it's perfect flight?  It shows still weak bareshaft but looks great fletched.  But out of curiosity I dropped to a 200 point and the bareshaft was perfect or slightly stiff.  The fletched still to fly straight.  If the fletching will correct slightly weak or stiff then how important is it to be just right bareshafted?  My understanding was that I wanted the bareshaft slightly week bc the fletching would stiffen it slightly.  How do you possibly know what is the right degree of weak?

Secondly, I think the nock fit is a bit tight (I've got a new string on the way now), how can I expect this to alter the flight?  It's not over the top right but a pretty significant snap to it.

[TexasStick81]

Anybody?