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Author Topic: Ethical Range: 50 yards  (Read 1739 times)

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2015, 10:56:00 AM »
90# doe at 20 most folk would take all day long.

 The vitals on an elk are 4 times that large....and they don't have the quickness of a deer.

Interesting scenario I'll say that.
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Offline AZ_Longbow

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2015, 10:57:00 AM »
If you are going to take a 50 yard shot, the question is are you that confident, or desperate.
If i am confident i can make the shot then i take it,whether archery, firearms, or pool.
"There's only two things an arrow wants to do, it wants to fly and it wants to hit its target. It's in its very nature. Don't over think it."

Online Daz

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2015, 11:16:00 AM »
It's been mentioned in an earlier post, but it is either a "red light" or a "green light". I don't estimate distance, as i don't use a formal aiming system.

I have had a bull elk at what later measured out to be 11 yards that was a red light, and a mule deer buck that was green light that later measured 35 yards.

I practice all year round over a wide variety of distances, and all i know is i have WAY more red light moments than green light moments in the field.
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Offline Terry Green

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2015, 11:45:00 AM »
Just went to vote...the word 'fling' caused me not to vote.  No offense made, hope none taken, but the word 'fling' is not something I do with an arrow.

Like I said, no offense, just not a word I associate with shooting my bow.
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Offline pdk25

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2015, 12:24:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:
90# doe at 20 most folk would take all day long.

 The vitals on an elk are 4 times that large....and they don't have the quickness of a deer.

Interesting scenario I'll say that.
X 2

Offline Archie

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2015, 01:04:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by pdk25:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Terry Green:
90# doe at 20 most folk would take all day long.

 The vitals on an elk are 4 times that large....and they don't have the quickness of a deer.

Interesting scenario I'll say that.
X 2 [/b]
x3

Weren't bowhunters shooting that far 40-50 years ago with traditional tackle?  Jack Howard, Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Jerry "Shaggie" Gentellalli... and my own father had many kills with his Jack Howard Gamemaster Jet on Catalina Island goats at over 50 yards.
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Offline bear bowman

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2015, 02:10:00 PM »
For me personally, I would not. I do not regularly practice at that range. I'm with most of the guys here. Each shot is different. Just because I'm comfortable at a given range does not mean I'm going to shoot if the animal is within that distance. great post

Offline pdk25

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2015, 04:18:00 PM »
I have only been on 2 elk hunts so far.  Before the first one I was practicing regularly out to 60 yards, and doing some longer stump shooting during the hunt.  With the way I was shooting, and after getting to see elk behavior, I would absolutely have taken the shot described.  I didn't get as much practice in this year, but found that I was still shooting pretty well.  I can't say that I would have taken the shot this year unless it absolutely felt right, but if it was 40 yards this year, I definitely would have.  You really can't apply the same criteria for shooting a whitetail to shooting an elk.  Different size vitals and behavior on the shot.  Even with a close shot at a seemingly relaxed whitetail deer, there are no guarantees what will happen at the time of release.  And I say this as someone who would prefer not to spend their time on fruitless tracking jobs.  I have a pretty high percentage of game recovery relative to arrows released.

Offline Charlie Lamb

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2015, 04:44:00 PM »
I wouldn't know a fifty yard shot if it walked up and bit me in the ass... before the fact. I learn how far the shot was when I step it off afterward.

I do know if it's a long shot or a short shot and whether I can make it or I can't. I guess it's part of the "instinct" of the shot for me. It comes from thousands if not tens of thousands of shots over a lifetime of shooting.

I know that doesn't help answer the question, but it's an honest answer and the way I perceive the issue.

As far as what an animal will or won't do or can or can't do between the time the shot is made and the arrow hits, I don't even figure that into the equation.

I've had deer coincidentally move at the instant of the shot and turn a perfect shot into a gut shot at very close range.

I've hunted areas where the deer react so predictably and violently at the sound of the shot that there was no hope of hitting the critter unless the arrow was aimed to "miss" the deer... at ranges well under twenty yards.
Personally I don't ever care to hunt there again because of that.

In closing I guess I think a bowhunter should sharpen his hunting and shooting skills and use the best judgement he can muster in every situation.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2015, 04:56:00 PM »
Nice post Charlie.....    :campfire:
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Offline stagetek

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2015, 05:27:00 PM »
Too far for me.

Offline Producer

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2015, 06:01:00 PM »
I do not practice shooting at extreme range and more importantly I don't practice range estimation at those distances in the field. I am confident I could get the alignment correct but the drop not so confident. I would not shoot.
What gives me wings? Flying with my arrows over and over again. And never giving up...For giving up means not believing...

Offline reddogge

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2015, 06:04:00 PM »
My backyard deer target is 50 yards from my back porch. Every session I shoot 6 arrows at it from the porch. I hit it several times each time but the least bit of overdraw or underdraw will cause a miss not to mention a slight pull. 50 yards is too far to be 100% sure for me and I'm an old time field archery shooter too.
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Offline Sixby

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2015, 06:09:00 PM »
Charlie and his great amount of experience nailed it. I too have had very close shots turn sour. Had a cow elk jump when she was 2 yards from me when I shot at her heart. Hit her in the neck. I was blessed in that she died within a hundred yards but that experience alone tells me that distance doesn't make a lot of difference with animal reaction. In fact I have had less string jumping ect past 25 yards on shots than under 25 yards.
God bless, Steve

Offline RC

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2015, 08:20:00 PM »
I would shoot but not in desperation but because I know I would make the shot. Learning to shoot longer range does not make you unethical it makes you a better shot. i killed a pig this year at 31 yards. A  shot I would normally pass on but there was no getting closer. I reminded myself that I had been killing the 3d pig every time at that range so I took the shot with confidence and drilled the hog. At the 3d range near my house I kill the elk and caribou targets at 60 yards everytime. Very rare do I not. We sometimes miss at 20 you know.
  I would not go on a hunt out west and let an animal I want walk because someone else thinks he is too far. If I know I can make the shot I`m gonna shoot. If I miss or worse it won`t be because I was flinging a hail Mary it will be because I just missed a shot I felt confident in making. It happens at any range. RC

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2015, 08:26:00 PM »
Charlie and RC both hit the nail aquare on the head!!!

Bisch

Offline TSP

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2015, 09:44:00 PM »
Big game like deer and elk are popular with the public and are typically managed with considerable public money and support.  It's an expensive undertaking and most supporters take a dim view of abusing big game hunting privileges at their expense.  

Some states and a good segment of the public perceive longbows and recurves as primitive hunting weapons, with built-in self-restricting limitations.  So, openly posting intent to use them on animals at ranges that MOST would consider excessive for that type of weapon, even if the user 'thinks' they are skilled enough, IMO damages the concept that longbows and recurves might deserve allowances relative to compounds, crossbows, firearms and special seasons.  It also tarnishes the general perception (IMO, an accurate one) that primitive bows are often the main choice of hunters looking to maximize fair chase rather than compromise the chase to their advantage.  I.e., for these simple weapons bow hunting is by-and-large considered a close-range sport.

In effect, you're probably not doing the rest of us any favors if you practice and support the idea that using simple trad hunting gear...bows and arrows of reasonable hunting weight, on game animals at 50 yards, is a good personal choice or even a marginally realistic undertaking for successful and responsible hunting.  The risks and potential shortfalls are just too great.

Offline BWallace10327

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2015, 10:25:00 PM »
TSP must stand for The Shame Police.  If you see any old bowhunting video footage, 50 yards was not an incredibly long shot.  I am very happy that I posted something that many people had something good to say about, and I posed a question that everyone had their own great answer to.  I did not, however, ask the question to have these answers whipped with the finger of shame.  Your post only cast a disparaging shadow over a chunk of the survey participants by wielding nothing more than a big, foam, finger of shame.  
Terry Green: You do not know me, but I enjoy using lively language when I write something.  Although "fling" may conjure up images of careless archery I only mean to impart my voice into what I write.  
Great post everyone. I'm glad that so many have joined the fun.  I did not get an elk, but I don't regret not taking the shot.  It didn't feel right.  If it would have I would have.  I had fun and can't dwell in hypotheticaland; I'm already looking forward to next year, or next weekend for a grouse at 100 yards.
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Offline RC

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2015, 11:11:00 PM »
I know trad shooters that are better shots at 40 yards than a lot of trad shooters are at 20. If the poor shot guy wounds one at 20 nobody sez much. but if the guy that shoots 5" groups at 40 yards wounds one at 40 the world falls apart. RC

Offline pdk25

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Re: Ethical Range: 50 yards
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2015, 12:14:00 AM »
I am wholeheartedly in Robert Carter's camp on this one.  I shared elk camp with a guy that was hitting tennis ball sized targets off the top of stumps at 30 yards, and hitting elk vital targets at near 100 yards this year.  Then again, he has been killing animals for a lot of years and practices a lot at varying distances.  It is not sound logic to assess your own level of confidence and abilities, and then extrapolate those same limitations to others under the guise of ethics.

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