Ethical Range: 50 yards

[Ray Hammond]

The problem is that too many things COULD go wrong, that are completely out of your control.  A calf gets startled by a bee (that happened to me) could decide to bolt in front of the bull- yes...your arrow will take that long to get there. The bull could see a tasty something and take one step in the time it takes your arrow to reach him at 50 yards...bullseye becomes a gut shot.

Boils down to how much respect you have for the animal.

Can it be done? Of course.  Should it be done.  That's up to you and you alone.  I practiced daily at 37 yards while preparing for several elk trips....and had a double robin hood doing it in '99. Would I have taken THAT shot? You bet.  Fortunately, that year I shot my bull at a whopping 5 yards I think.

[Stickbow]

Originally posted by Ray Hammond:


Boils down to how much respect you have for the animal.

 QUOTE]
x2

[BowDiddle]

The average adult bull elk's walking stride is 30 to 60 inches.

At 50 yards, being a good shot has very little to do with it.

The distance that even a relaxed grazing elk can cover in just one step has everything to do with it.

They have plenty of time to take that step long before the arrow gets there.

Unless there are some very specific conditions in play, I don't take the shot.

[RC]

Kinda in line with Charlies post I think ..I believe a 50 yard shot at a relaxed and unaware Elk is more ethical than a 20 yard shot at a 150" buck at a feeder in Texas if you are talking about what the animal will do at string release.considering the guy shooting can hit what he is shooting at with both shots on a still target.It all can be argued but I would shoot regardless. I hunt to kill stuff and would put my shot recovery ratio against anyone on this forum or any compound forum. RC

[BowDiddle]

So now the jabs at the feeder setters will start?

Ethics are in the eye of the beholder.

Could I make the 50 yard shot? Absolutely.

Could I guarantee the elk would not decide to take a step before the arrow gets there? Absolutely not.

Can I judge the reaction of an excited deer at 15 to 20 yards? Absolutely, but will generally pass on those shots also, and wait for the deer to relax, or at least look away.

RC, you're a great hunter. No doubt about that, and you have MUCH respect from me.

I too hunt to kill stuff.

In several decades of stickbow hunting, and many animals arrowed I've failed to recover only three. One of those was from a bad shot. The other two were because the ramrods of the hunt would not allow me to do what it took to recover the animal, and one of those I could see the animal laying dead about 250ft below me.

[longbow fanatic 1]

For me, I try to consider if the shot I'm about to take is a high percentage shot. By high percentage, I mean a shot I can make 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 times. Each archer must evaluate their own ability and make their own decision.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by BowDiddle:
So now the jabs at the feeder setters will start?

I did not read it that way...not at all.  However, it is a fact that deer around a feeder are skiddish and do react more violently that those that aren't on a very high percentage level compared.  No jab if you are stating facts.  

So, lets not read something into a statement and start down another road that will end up getting us no where.

Again, just as posted earlier, please take no offense and don't read anything into what I said.  I've hunted in TX and know myself, I too have killed all 3 of my TX bucks (and several does) by aiming at the dirt below them 3 inches behind the elbow.  

Even at 12 yards I aimed under one buck. When you shoot an animal 12-15 yards and you are 15-20 feet up in the air and the entrance and exit wounds are level AND you are aiming under them.....there CAN be an argument as to whether or not its ethical to shoot a bow in that type of hunting set up even at 12 yards.

Now, how many favors am I doing by posting this?  

See where I'm going?  Animals can move at 12 yards or closer, and they can move at 50....shall we all abandon our bows for claymores?

Nah.....then we wouldn't have bowhunting, and get to make our own choices, hopefully the right ones at any give time, and not give up our freedoms.

[LBR]

I'll play devil's advocate for a minute here.

At 20 yd's and under, an elk is more apt to see you, to smell you, to hear you, to hear the string drop.  Other animals that may notice you are more apt to put the elk on alert;  all of which could cause unpredictable behavior resulting in a bad shot.  Therefore, there's no way any ethical hunter would even consider taking a shot at an elk under 20 yds.

On top of the variables listed for elk, at 20 yds and under a deer may drop, jump, spin, bolt, kick...or just stand there when the string is released.  There's no way to accurately predict what they might do.  Again, no way any ethical hunter could consider taking a shot at such a short distance.

Of course I don't believe anyone lacks ethics for taking a shot at under 20 yds, but the points are valid if you want to argue them.  I actually saw an article years ago where a famous bow hunter made that argument about shooting at deer.

A 50 yds shot can add to the variables, but it can also subtract from them.  There will always be variables beyond our control.  Depends on which ones you are comfortable with as to whether or not you take the shot.

As I said before, if we were to wait on the absolutely perfect, fool-proof, can't miss shot then we would never take a shot.  

Not to say we should take risky shots hoping to get lucky, but as has been noted:  some can shoot more accurately at 50 yds than others at 20.  

Why is it more ethical for the lousy shot to make an attempt at 20?  Why is it more ethical to take a shot at squirrels, rabbits, carp, stingray, coyotes, pigs, etc. vs. elk?  Either you are trying to kill it, or you aren't.  Right?

[GreyGoose]

Given my current skill and confidence in it, it would be unadvisable (and perhaps unethical) for ME to take such a shot.  However, I don't think that applies to others better prepared, if the situation presents itself favorably.

[Blaino]

I don't understand all this talk of "ethical this and ethical that"... aren't we a humans predators? How ethical is Mother Nature?  I'd say Mother Nature is an "unethical" bitch!  Does the mountain lion question ethics? No.  Or does a lion cub ask how did you KILL this elk; heck no they just eat.   Aren't we trying to fill our freezers and feed ourselves? I know that is my end goal! I just choose to do it with a bow and arrow.
Ethics are human imposed feelings. And to me killing a fawn deer with spots is unethical, not trying to kill an elk at 50 yards when you have complete confidence in yourself and equipment.
For the record I said I wouldn’t take the shot. And not because I thought some given distance means it is unethical.  
I go hunting; not killing. Nothing is a 100% given while hunting.

[ChuckC]

Not sure why we are arguing this point.  The question asks what YOU would do, not what should be done by everybody.  Some folks can shoot that far, others can't.   I can't, as stated earlier.  Some can, but won't, for whatever THEIR reasons are.

Course, I just recently watched a high tech compound friend miss a broadside, standing still bull elk THREE times at 30 - 40 yards ( he used a rangefinder for the first shot, 31 yards).  He can hit a tennis ball every single time at 30 yards in practice, and nearly every time at 40 yards, I watched him do it.

Whatever
ChuckC

[BowDiddle]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
 

Originally posted by BowDiddle:
So now the jabs at the feeder setters will start?

I did not read it that way...not at all.  [/b]

Nor did I.

My point was more in the form of a question, as in - since some others have chosen to condemn the long shots, would they also start condemning the wired up animal shots?

I voted No on taking the shot, and explained why I would not take it under most circumstances, but I do not condemn, or even disagree with those who chose to take it.

It's not my place to judge other hunter's decisions, and I won't be the one to suffer for it when they make the bad decisions, at least not in the short term anyway. We all live & learn, or at least I hope we do.

[Terry Green]

The same argument could be made for hogs...they are the most unstable target I know of, especially in a group....I've drawn on one as many as 8 times before I shot.  Maybe we shouldn't hunt them since they are so fidgety and their movements are so quick, frequent and unpredictable......

Nah, we should hunt the heck out of them....

Just more food for thought.....

Great thread BTW.  Nice to see it stay civil in the TradGang spirit.

   

[joe ashton]

I am not that gifted.. 25 maybe 30 yards tops!

[Kevin Dill]

Agree completely with what's been said about close shots having their own risks...sometimes they don't work out BECAUSE of close ranges and animal senses. A 15 yard shot might tend toward better accuracy than a 40 yarder, but accuracy is far from the only factor which affects the outcome of shots on game. We fool ourselves into thinking closer is always better...I do it too.

I hear the word 'respect' used, and I understand it this way: I have enough respect for the sport of hunting to make the best possible shot and follow-up possible, whenever I decide to take a shot. Our bowhunting history and heritage is brimming with bowmen who routinely lobbed arrows at big game at distances that most compound guys wouldn't try today. Were they phenomenal shooters or optimistic hopefuls? You decide. Was respect a factor in their minds? You decide. How do you see the animal and choose your shots? You decide.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Originally posted by CA BOWHUNTER:
I took up the Traditional bow to hunt not shoot 50 yards to far for me.

First off let me apologize for my statement no one complained about it I readied so many more response on it I think I was too quick to spout off I think it show my ignorance. After all it is about the journey and teaching and I do learn a lot from all of you.

[Bowwild]

I had the same problem with the word "fling" in the poll. Says a lot. I voted no for multiple reasons but one was because of that word. I'm sure the poster meant nothing by it. Neither can I stand the world "stick" in bowhunting discussions. But I parse...

The last time I took a shot at 50 yards or more with a recurve was my first year at Purdue in the fall of 1973. I was on the apple orchard archery range. I was killing 13-lined ground squirrels. One caused me to end up on top of an open grassy knoll.  There was an aluminum can 70 yards away. I took the shot. Nailed the can and messed up my fletching on the pass through.  Of course that can wasn't going to move, I wasn't going to spend a day or more tracking a bad hit, and hit or miss it wasn't going to prey on my mind for a day or 10,000.

I have a very difficult to draw 2015 KY Archery Cow permit (took me 9 years to draw). I had hoped to practice at 40 to make 30 easy. Bicep tendonitis for 8 months has prevented the amount of practice that would be required.  I'm 75% on the Rinehart elk target at 30 yards. I'm 100% at 20.  So, I'll be shooting 20 yards or less if I get a chance. Even at that range the outcome is far from guaranteed...for anyone.  

I won't develop a new effective range on an animal I respect. But hey, it is your and my hunt and as long as one doesn't portray a bad outcome, that may have resulted from a uninformed decision, as normal in bowhunting, I'm fine with it.

Nope, I don't respect em all either...coyotes get no such quarter.

[RC]

My feeder comment was directed at "wired" deer not feeder hunting. Its legal and If I went to Texas I would do it. Its legal here in South Ga and I have killed deer that way on private land. I hunt mostly on public land and its not legal there.
   There are two skills every bowhunter must have to gather meat. One, you must have woodsman skills to get you close enough for the bow. Two, you must be able to shoot as far as your woodsman skills get you to deer. If one is lacking the other must make up for it if you intend on killing stuff. A very successful hunter is good at both and eats good.
   One other thing... I know a ton of "Traditional" bowhunters that may shoot 30 arrows a month and are content with just walking around in the woods with their back quiver and fedora hat on. They seldom kill anything but they are happy and thats all good and they been at it for 20 years.  Nothing wrong with that. Problem is these fellas are real quick to give advise on broadheads,arrows,is this poundage to little for pigs...you get my point.We all make choices we have to live with but be sure to weigh the advise you receive on the internet...some of it could be weak. RC

[Mike Mongelli]

One other thing... I know a ton of "Traditional" bowhunters that may shoot 30 arrows a month and are content with just walking around in the woods with their back quiver and fedora hat on. They seldom kill anything but they are happy and thats all good and they been at it for 20 years.  Nothing wrong with that. Problem is these fellas are real quick to give advise on broadheads,arrows,is this poundage to little for pigs...you get my point.We all make choices we have to live with but be sure to weigh the advise you receive on the internet...some of it could be weak. RC [/QB][/QUOTE]

Ain't that the truth RC!  You sir, are the real deal.

[Mike Mecredy]

there are lots of bow hunters that can consistently make clean kill shots at 50 yrds or more.  I'm not one of them, but if I honed my shooting to be confident at that distance I would take shots like that.