Would This Influence Your Decision To Buy A Bow?

[LBR]

If your bow was labeled with the correct AMO length, or if not it had an actual string length added to the writing on it (example:  ASL 57"), would that influence your decision on whether or not to buy that bow.  The purpose behind either one would be to give the customer an accurate, middle of the road length for a new string.

[ChuckC]

Rather than vote, which only answers the question AS WORDED with the answers AS ALLOWED, I will say...

it would not stop me from buying a bow, but.. come on, (bowyers) is it really that difficult to add that information on to the bow when you build it ?  If it helps the folks using your equipment, is it not worth a minute of your time ?  Maybe the brace height as well.
Chuck

[LBR]

Thanks Chuck.  What I meant was, say you had it narrowed down to two bows you like equally well.  One has the ASL on it, the other does not.  Would that extra ink make you lean towards that bow, or would it make you lean towards the one without the extra ink?  I didn't mean would you make a decision to buy or not based solely on that.

Chad

[Longtoke]

Assuming 2 identical bows, one with ASL one with AMO I would choose ASL. If not identical I would just choose the one I liked best and figure out brace height myself.  What is the point of AMO anyway? seems like way to let manufactures be lazy

[LBR]

When labeled correctly, AMO will tell you what length string will put your bow within the recommended brace height range, plus it will give you a close estimate on the over-all length of the strung bow.  

For instance, if a bow is 66" AMO, it will get a 63" string and the strung length will be around 66".  That is as long as the bow and string are both made to ATA specs.

[BowDiddle]

If the recommended brace height on a bow works out for me, then I run with it, and the string that came with it, but I've seldom had a bow that I wound up running with the recommended brace height anyway. I usually wind up using a much higher than recommended.

If the string that comes with the bow will allow me to get the brace height where I want it that's fine. If it don't I get a different string, and it's never been to difficult to get what I wanted, although I have had a few hard headed stringers who took me a while to convince.

[ron w]

It makes no difference to me......but I think it is a nice touch. I have seen a few that were marked with the string length but I can't remember which bowyers did it.

[LBR]

No big shock so far--nobody would be turned off if the bow has the ASL on it or if it were labeled with the correct AMO.

I wish I'd added more details...like if you were buying the bow used and it had no string/obviously the wrong length string.  Oh well...hindsight's 20/20.

[LBR]

Ron, Herter's is the only one I know of.  May have been others, but I've never seen one.

[BowDiddle]

Chastain used to mark their bows with string length. At least the ones I had were.

[LBR]

Cool--I didn't know that.  Never owned a Chastain that I can remember--don't know that I've even shot one.

[Rob DiStefano]

bear in mind that to a tiny or huge degree, all bows and bowstrings are somewhat unique.  

"AMO" means absolutely nothing to me - never heeded their "recommendations" and never will.  i've seen way too many variations and fudge factors with "AMO guidelines".  there is no need for that, at least for me.  

a good bowyer designs a bow with lots of parameters in mind, and part of that equation will be its brace height.  whatever string length is required to attain that magic brace height is all that matters.  a good bowyer will supply one or more correct strings for his bow, to the bow's new owner.  and so, there is no viable alternative to being sold a bow with a proper length bowstring, as its creator recommends.

should the bowyer tell the customer what length bowstring is required for that bow to achieve a proper brace height, as defined by the bowyer?  or should the customer ask the bowyer for that data?  to me, it doesn't matter.  i make bowstrings and what string length or parameters or materials required is something i can control.  to a beginning archer, that could be an issue and all that archer needs to do is either ask the bowyer and/or measure the string that came with the bow.  it's not rocket science.
 
whatever string that comes with a new bow, that allows the recommended bowyer/manufacturer brace height, should be the length model for all future bowstrings for that unique bow.

"hey, what string length?" - depends on how ya measure a string - what is its material, how much twist is in, and whether it's got most of its stretch removed.  more subjectively unique stuff.    :cool:

[LBR]

There's one flaw there Rob.  Marking the bow incorrectly.  AMO may not mean anything to some folks, but it's a standard...THE standard, and has been for over half a century.  Just like marking a bow's draw weight at 28", or marking it at all.  If it's not going to be done correctly, why mark it at all?

You don't invent  your own limb connection system, label it as "ILF", and expect people to be happy with it when you aren't following the standard but label the bow as if you are.

AMO string length standards are simple.  Mark the bow 3" longer than the string that puts it at the proper brace.  If they don't want to do that, them simply don't label the bow as "AMO".  That would be the honest thing to do.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You are da man Rob... that was a good explanation.

Loop size & measuring AMO string length is one thing using 1/4" pegs, and the size of the loop won't make any difference on the length of the string...... But......It can be something completely different when you put it on limb tips of different bows that have various different shapes and width between the tip notches.

Some bowyers just cut straight notches 90 degrees to the face of the glass and that string has to bend around the angle. Very common in the older recurve bows. Others shape their string grooves so they are rounded off and the string makes a smoother transition into the limb..... The widths between the notches and the width of the limbs themselves dictate the appropriate loop size.

If the loops are too tight, the string can bind up   on a recurve limb and cause limb twist if it is left strung without making sure its centered up properly..... its most commonly seen on RC strings where the bottom loop is done smaller than the top loop.

 If the recommended brace height is 7" and marked AMO 60" & a 57" AMO string is provided with the appropriate loop size, and the archer prefers an 8" brace. He is going to order a string an inch shorter than AMO, or have to do a lot of twisting......

Now.... what AMO length bow does he have now? If the string length regulates the AMO bow length. Is it miss marked now?


There are a lot of factors to consider, and unfortunately for you string builders, you guys gotta roll with it just like custom bowyers do. Even if every bowyer marks their bows accurately you guys still need to take loop size and twist count into consideration for different bow designs and customer whims.....

Btw.... i was just pulling your leg on marking mine wrong on that other sight LBR... I order my strings long with very few twists so i can dial in the exact brace as i tune it before i ship it out.  They come out pretty darn close to AMO specs when i'm done, but every bow has a sweet spot and they all vary.

[Bladepeek]

Having bought a LOT of used bows, some without strings, I think it would be a nice touch if the bowyer put EITHER the ASL or AMO length on the bow. It certainly wouldn't turn me off if they were both on the bow, but that's redundant. Just as long as, if the bowyer marks it AMO, he follows the AMO guidline - correct string length plus 3".

Sure, I can put a temporary string on and twist it up or down and then measure it at what I'm guessing is the correct brace height.

I don't happen to have any 68" bows nor strings for them. If I were to pick up a 68" bow without a string, it would be nice to know whether I should order a 64", 65" or 66" string so I can start tuning it.

[Rob DiStefano]

i don't particularly care what length or xx@xx is marked on any trad bow.  those are guidelines.  some can be spot on, others way spot off.  and those who've been in this sport for decades learnt that quite well.

the problem with all this bow and string length stuff are the folks bow buyers/owners who just quite don't know.  if AMO can make folks warm and fuzzy, that's a good thing.  but some of us know better, and the newbies will hopefully learn in time, too.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Bladepeek:
Having bought a LOT of used bows, some without strings, I think it would be a nice touch if the bowyer put EITHER the ASL or AMO length on the bow. It certainly wouldn't turn me off if they were both on the bow, but that's redundant. Just as long as, if the bowyer marks it AMO, he follows the AMO guidline - correct string length plus 3".

Sure, I can put a temporary string on and twist it up or down and then measure it at what I'm guessing is the correct brace height.

I don't happen to have any 68" bows nor strings for them. If I were to pick up a 68" bow without a string, it would be nice to know whether I should order a 64", 65" or 66" string so I can start tuning it.

the bowyer just needs to specify a bowstring length for a particular bow.  that's all.  that's also the start, because different string types and materials are just different.  it's just an educational thing.

[LBR]

Loop size & measuring AMO string length is one thing using 1/4" pegs, and the size of the loop won't make any difference on the length of the string...... But......It can be something completely different when you put it on limb tips of different bows that have various different shapes and width between the tip notches.
 

That's why AMO requires a set of "string masters".  Measuring on 1/4" pegs is the standard, so everyone is on the same page.  The width of the limb, how the grooves are cut, etc. won't change the length of the string master that fits a particular bow.  

Say a 57" string master is what puts your bow at the proper brace height.  Regardless of loop size, a string maker that is following AMO specs will duplicate that length.  They are both measured on 1/4" pegs, so they are the same length.  It doesn't matter if they are shorter when actually put on the bow.  That's why they are "standards".  The string length matches the length of the string master that fits.

If someone chooses to set their bow up outside the given parameters, that's their choice.  That is the exception, not the rule, and it won't change AMO Standards.  Got to start somewhere.  Why not start with the correct measurement?

   

 Even if every bowyer marks their bows accurately you guys still need to take loop size and twist count into consideration for different bow designs and customer whims.....

Not when it comes to AMO specifications--I've already proven that.  I don't claim to know everything, but I do know a pretty good bit about making strings.  The only specifications are 1/4" pegs, 50# load for 10 strands or less of Dacron, 100# load for everything else, for 20 seconds.  Doesn't matter what bow design or what material.  Couldn't get much more simple.

So, again...why not either mark the actual string length on the bow, or if you are going to put "AMO" on it follow AMO specs so it's correct?  It doesn't cost a penny more to do it right to begin with.

Thank you Bladepeek.

[Bladepeek]

Rob, I respect your experience, but if a bowyer doesn't know his own bows well enough to at least put me in the ballpark by giving me either the recommended string length or the AMO bow length, he doesn't know his own bows very well.
When I order the string length I believe I need, every string maker I have ordered from on this site has given me what I asked for. It may turn out not to be the perfect length for that bow, but it will be close enough that I can use it. Next time, I'll order 1/2" longer or shorter as necessary, but I'll have a good, usable string to start with.

[Hermon]