Best elk calls?

[gregg dudley]

I will be elk hunting for the first time this year and would like your input into calls.  I have trouble with diaphram calls and am looking for your recommendation on other styles.  What have you tried?  What works best for you?  What brands are the best.  I understand that they take a little while to master, co I am ready to start annoying the neighbors now.  Any help or advice will be appreciated.

[sagebrush]

My personal opinion is that there are way too many people calling elk. The elk now seldom answer a call in many places. I use a diaphram call when I use one at all. I use a cow call more often but even that is getting overuse by people. Gary

[Sneakypete]

Gregg -- this is a complex topic. In my long experience hunting and guiding elk in CO, I strongly recommend that you Do Not Bugle unless you're way back in wilderness or roadless country where elk rarely see, and hear, hunters. I not carried a bugle for years now, and use it only when guiding for video-and ad-drunk clients who don't feel they've experienced an elk hunt without a lot of bugling. When it works, it's so dramatic that you just want to keep trying, in hopes it will work again. But it very rarely works these days, especially within a day's walk of any road or motorized trail. Cow calls are still viable, but it takes a lot of experience to know when they will work, and when they will work against you. For a first-timer, I suggest you hunt elk as you would whitetails, but without the treestands. Get there early and scout. Find springs, wallows, fresh trails, and set up a good ground hide and ... sit there for as long as it takes. Spot and stalk at first light. If you're hearing lots of fake bugling, so somewhere else, as those elk will be spooked. Exceptions don't make the rule. Just one hunter's opinion, hard-earned in the trenches. With a good attitude, good companions (or none), and hunting beyond the sound of motors, you're sure to have a good time. Go get 'em!

[Wengerd Bowyer]

PRIMOS makes good elk calls. The hyperlip single is my favorite.

[Brian Krebs]

Gregg- first if you have not already tried the diaphram calls with the dome on them- like the primos- try those first- they work really well for me; it has to do with the shape of the roof of your mouth.
 Second - I can look outside right now and see elk; I hear them at night; I listen to them year round.
 When the bulls are in rut; they kinda get stupid; and they will even respond to the sreech of bad brakes on a car.
 If your trying to immitate the bugle of a bull; then keep in mind that the ability to make a high note and make it with volume- outweighs the perfect bugle; its just that high pitch that rattles them into returning a bugle.
 There are a lot of bugles out there that work fine; you should use one with a reed built in- and even if you perfect the diaphram call- you should have a call that is consistant and easy...
 Because when you run uphill and down and get all out of breath and nervous; dry mouthed and knock-kneed you should have an easy to operate call.
 Now- with cow calls- I have tried nearly all of them; and in the fall; where the cows are starting to group up and mix with other herds; and there are young elk mewing and spikes talking with a broken voice- you can fool the old cows and the bulls- with most any call-
 You need to know what you are saying in elk talk; as one thing means "I am a lost calf" another "I am a big cow; get over here" or " I am ready for you big boy".
 Most guys get in close to a herd of elk; use a lost calf call; get a cow in to investigate; and then bugle or just as important if not more- use a branch to imitate a bull raking a tree or the gound- as they do both.. or even pushing on a small tree that produces the swishing noise of a bull pushing on a tree in anger.
 Now I can tell you that in the winter; where I am seeing small herds of a dozen elk; any cow call gets their ears perked up; but when they get into big groups of 200 or more- they seem to know who talks what way.
  I can watch them with binoculars and use a cow call and they often will all stand up and take off at a trot. Same call in the fall - brings them in.
  The ONLY call that I have used in the winter fall spring and summer that does not alert them; and that they accept as another elk- is the little grey folded up plastic with a rubber band cow call by ELK INC.
 I don't know why; but any time of year it just does not spook them- and even if you make a stupid sound out of it; they seem to be ok with it.
 Watch some Primos tapes on elk hunting. You will see that they locate a bull with a bugle or a cow call; the shooter then gets ahead towards the bull very fast; and the callers set up 40 to 100 yards behind- and you will discover that is the best way to do it!!!
 The other way - if your hunting alone- is to set up an elk decoy; and then get ahead of it towards the bull and call until the bull starts heading to the decoy- and hopefully past you.
 Its not all about the calling; its about knowing how they think; and the bulls don't always want to get into a fight with an unknown bull- they will most often stop at 40 or 50 yards or further and try to see the bull that is calling; or the cow that is calling.
 Personally I use the primos dome type diaphram call; carry two hoochie momma calls; and an elk inc call. You can really make different noises and get some positive attention that way- but sometimes just a soft mew is all you need.
 Like I say- if you haven't tried the high domed diaphram calls- do so; and if your bugling- remember not to practice around loved ones- they will eventually evolve your call from a LOUD bugle to a bugle that sounds like a bull two miles away- which rarely interests any bull at any time of the year...
 There is an online place- or was- where there are different elk vocalizations to hear- if I can find the link or if someone else knows where it is - could you put the link up?
  Let us know how things are progressing Gregg.

     

[Outwest]

Greg
Get  your self a cow call and learn to use it.
Sceery makes some that are easy to use with a little practice.
I would not go elk hunting ever without a cow call. No matter what time of the year it is.
A cow call will do a lot more for you than just call in elk. It will stop moving animals. It will locate animals. It will reassure animals and much more.

Good luck.
John

[gregg dudley]

Thanks, guys, for the detailed and well thought out comments.  This trip is unguided on a combination of private and blm land in western Colorado.  Frankly, I know less about it than I should because I didn't do the leg work.  I am going with some buddies and will deem it a successful trip if I see some elk.  Bow-range elk would be nice.  Everything else will be gravy.

I understand the points about call-shy animals.  I think we are over-doing the grunts, snorts, wheezes, growls, bleats, etc. here in the East with whitetails and I imagine the same is true out west with elk.

I will look into some of the calls you guys mentioned.  Keep the lessons coming.

[kctreeman]

Hoochie Mama for me.  I've had good luck in MT with it.  Simple to use and sounds great.  Had a bunch of cows into about 10 yards one night just going nuts.

[bowfiend]

I second the no bugle idea. Keep that to a minimum. Personally, I have a lanyard with three open reed calls that I wear - a Primos hyper Lip double, a carlton fighting cow call, and a sceery single reed. They all produce a different sound and I like to have options. I also keep a Primos double reed mouth call in my mouth and it has its own sound. I have successfully used it to stop bulls in shooting lanes for shot opportunities.

Sneaky Pete's shooting straight here, and I think he's giving you good advice. I try to keep as quiet as possible. As soon as you call - just one call - any elk within earshot knows exactly where you are. I prefer to not give away my position, so to speak.

Two years ago I had just taken a little bull in the Welcome Creek Wilderness near my home in Montana. I was dressing the animal when I caught movement in the timber. I stood there quietly over my opened-up bull watching as two bowhunters walked slowly past me at 80 yards. At this point, mind you, I had put on a red bandanna to keep the sweat out of my eyes as I lobored on the bull. The two guys had absolutely no idea I was there. Still in plain view, one pulled a primos terminator bugle out and ripped a huge bugle into the canyon below. They waited a couple minutes and, without hearing a response, moved on. I shared this story to illustrate my opinion that there are way to many guys in the woods calling without any real understanding of situations that may warrant it. And bugling blindly into the woods will get you busted more often than not.

[j yenney]

what time in september are you going?

[gregg dudley]

Sept 15-22

[Whip]

If you've got some private land and limited access public land to hunt you may very well do better than many areas.  I've hunted some private a few times and we've had very good success with calling.  Others have mentioned, and they are exactly right, you need to learn what you are saying when you talk to an elk.  Not all sounds mean the same.  By far the best way to learn that I have found is to order some CD's and/or DVD's from Elknut Productions.  They are not profesionally done, high quality entertainment like many hunting videos.  But they are excellent teaching tools to help you learn what the different sounds are and how to react to them.

[j yenney]

If I was you I would not be using calls. Ive found that in the first part of september the elk are a little more interested in finding out what is going on but like many guys have said the elk are getting very call shy. Where I hunt is fairly remote and even a soft cow will have the elk running away. They will respond to a bugle but will keep moving away slowly. There are some guys starting to use a tree stand in a remote draw above a wallow. I have been having good luck with a tree stand and decoy, with a little patience. As to the best calls I've had the best luck with hoochie mama and a primos bugle (blue band) and make it squeal don't try to sound the the Herd bull. good luck and let us know how it went

[gregg dudley]

Thanks for all of the solid advice.  Sounds like I should be conservative at best in the calling department.  Of course, being a novice and trying something new, I will probably overcall despite my good intentions.

[Mark U]

Some good advice here.  The call Brian is talking about is as good as any.

As with anything, go prepared, but keep it simple.  Elk can be pretty unpredictable no matter where they are at.  They may not make a sound for three weeks, then scream like gurls for a whole day nonstop.  If your not out there with them, you'll miss it.  That's the timing thing, and you really don't know when it will happen.  Any call will probably work then.

One of my favorite calls was one I found on a rock next to me when I was glassing a canyon.  A blue diaphragm, if I recall.  Thayne, my son, questioned my sanity when I put it in my mouth and blew it, but I figured if the guy who left it made it all the way back in where we were, he didn't have anything too contagious.  I'll buy one new one a year, if I see it in the store.

I think the best elk hunting tool today is a really good pair of running shoes.  Bulls with cows run away at most any disturbance, and if you can get in front of them to set up an ambush you stand a good chance of having elk close.

[denny]

Gregg, I used just the mouthpiece from a monarch bugle with good results, it sounds pretty squeally without the tube. I sent you a pm with more info about what worked for me. denny

[Brian Krebs]

yep! that's it Whip!
  www.elknut.com   that's the place to learn elk talk!!!
 If you get a hoochie momma; tie a piece of baling twine or bright colored string to it; when you drop one- they just end up lost. I have found two of them last fall alone-- one was mine and did not work anymore from exposure to the sun; the other- well it works fine. I have used two at one time - laying the call of one over the other adds to the reality of an accutal herd.
 Hey don't blame us when your addicted to elk hunting  

     

[sndmn11]

another suggestion to get the dvds from elknut.  its one thing to make the noises but another to know what you are saying and more importantly to know they are saying.  we've found it very helpful to know what is going on with the elk that we can hear but cant see.

[njstykbow]

I've had just the opposite results from bugling.  A small group of us has hunted together for the past 3 years on public land, very accessible.  We've killed 11 bulls in those 3 years and only 1 has been called in with a cow call.  I'm not saying we don't cow call, we do, but we've had bulls bugle back to us for 45-60 minutes answering a cow call and not moving.  Hit the bugle one time, here they come.  I know this goes against the common beliefs of most elk hunters today, but don't limit your options by being afraid to use the bugle.  If you use it and have negative results in your area don't use it.  I say, the proof's in the freezer!

Joe

[Whip]

Right sndmn.  I don't think the type of call has much to do with it at all.  It's a matter of using a call that you can use well, and make it produce the sounds you want given the situation.  Using a number of different calls is perfect.
Heck, listen to elk when you hear them.  They don't all sound the same.  Especially the bugles.  The different tones and variations are amazing.  
Just like in human social circles, by far the most important thing is knowing what to say when, and also when not to say anything.