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Author Topic: Deer drives  (Read 1701 times)

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2015, 01:20:00 AM »
I'm not much into driving but I've done it, and compared to a bait site, with trail camera, elevated tripod stand with comfy couch and a sliding window....well you get the drift.  This IS woodsman ship, this IS cooperative hunting, this IS more about meat than it is about horns, this is as traditional as it gets and we've been doing it for literally our whole existence as Homo sapiens.

A good drive is a thing of beauty, it's not deer running hell bent for leather to get out of there.  The posters are downwind and the drivers meander quietly and slowly from upwind.  The deer slowly filter past the posters and often seem totally unconcerned they're just moseying out of the way of the humans coming for a walk.  Two hunters can accomplish this by the way with a little forethought and cooperation.

Offline ron w

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2015, 08:25:00 AM »
calgarychef......you are spot on. I think some think that all deer drives are hooting and banging on pans to get the deer to move towards the sitters. Such is not the case, videos by Gene and Barry Wensel show how the do it with great success..........and I guess I wouldn't question their ethics.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.  Shunryu Suzuki

Offline ron w

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2015, 04:30:00 PM »
:notworthy:    :notworthy:
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.  Shunryu Suzuki

Offline mangonboat

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2015, 06:29:00 PM »
I will limit my post to the OP's request.
1) You don't need a large crowd to do a drive..2 hunters can do a drive with surprising success.
2) Listen to the guys telling you that drivers are essentially still hunters, moving slowly , stopping often to listen, check the wind and watch for any movement.
3) Listen to the guys who said that knowledge of the terrain and deer habits in the hunt area dramatically increase the likelihood of success
4) A drive is a great way to hunt state game land and other large tracts where you simply cant spend enough time scouting to identify every trail, finger, scrape and rub and identify every productive white oak tree but you CAN study aerial photos, topo maps, etc and get a pretty good idea where deer are likely to funnel when they are moving .
5) A drive is a good mid-day hunt..when deer would normally start thinking about bedding down, a strange twig crack in the distance might just move them along slowly to a different area..just have your "sitters" stay in their stands or blinds and the "drivers" will move in due time toward the sitters.
6) Done properly, the sitters and drivers have roughly equal likelihood of having a deer walk by at close range.
7) with modern technology, texting with cell phones can dramatically improve your drive tactics and success because, e.g,  you can alert the others if you see a deer in the distance and know generally what direction it is moving, if you come upon another hunter, if the creek is too deep to cross , if you encounter an unexpected fence or property boundary, etc.
8) A drive can be a good early archery season tactic, when rut isn't moving deer,  or late season  when the acorns, corn and beans are long gone.
9) Barking noises, banging limbs against tree trunks, whistling, etc, will almost never lead to good results..at best it makes deer move very quickly and keep moving for a long time.
10) Uncertain deer do not move in straight lines away from a perceived source of anxiety...they follow trail,terrain, etc, often  at right angles and frequently circling to get downwind. Remember than when thinking about where the sitters might be located and where drivers should be looking.
11) Never ,ever, under no circumstances, drive when gun hunters, black powder hunters are in the area and walkers should wear some blaze orange to , hopefully, catch the eye of noobs with x bows.
12) If your painstakingly-planned and perfectly-executed  drive puts a monster buck  right in front of a total stranger who arrows him while the buck kept looking back over his shoulder, shake his/her hand and help drag it out.If you do enough drives, I guarantee it will happen.
mangonboat

I've adopted too many bows that needed a good home.

Offline Jakeemt

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2015, 06:47:00 PM »
Thanks man! Great stuff. Thanks for keeping this thread open Terry.

Offline Red Beastmaster

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2015, 10:11:00 PM »
"7) with modern technology, texting with cell phones can dramatically improve your drive tactics and success because, e.g, you can alert the others if you see a deer in the distance and know generally what direction it is moving"

Check your state's game laws on this one. Here in PA it's illegal to use electronic devices to alert hunters of game movement. It happens every day, but it's not supposed to.

This is a good thread. I didn't realize others were into deer drives like our gang.
There is no great fun, satisfaction, or joy derived from doing something that's easy.  Coach John Wooden

Offline RedShaft

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2015, 10:15:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Beastmaster:
"7) with modern technology, texting with cell phones can dramatically improve your drive tactics and success because, e.g, you can alert the others if you see a deer in the distance and know generally what direction it is moving"

Check your state's game laws on this one. Here in PA it's illegal to use electronic devices to alert hunters of game movement. It happens every day, but it's not supposed to.

This is a good thread. I didn't realize others were into deer drives like our gang.
For me it is one of the most exciting ways to hunt!! Bunch of good guys together doing this. Here they come boys! Gets the the blood going and it's nice way to stay warm and hunt during the cold cold times in January.
Rough Country.. The Hunters Choice

Offline Hackbow

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2015, 01:51:00 PM »
I think one or two guys said it above, but when pushed gently, deer sometimes seem to be distracted by the pusher rather than being scared. I have noticed this a bit more often in areas where deer are used to people (hikers, birdwatchers, fishermen, etc.) They oftentimes aren't as alarmed by scent in those places.

Come to think of it, I've also noticed that in big woods type of hunting the deer don't seem to run away as hard as in typical farm ground areas.

Offline robertson

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2015, 06:05:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Izzy:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hackbow:
"If your feelings got hurt you are that guy and you can cry to someone who cares, I dont."

I am surprised at the attitude of people who claim that deer drives are "not hunting" and "not ethical". Many of these same people, including several on this thread, sit in tree stands above a deer's line of sight and out of the way of most of their ability to use their nose. Baiting, feeders, trail cams are also used and talked about here and are not met with the same derision as drives.

Before horn porn existed as a huge industry, many of us grew up driving deer. It was a time-honored social activity. Then inches of antler became more important than meat or coming-of-age hunts and hunting lands got closed off to many who previously had access. Even access to hunt small game has been denied in many, if not most private properties where deer live.

All this so that the landowner or leaser could have less competition in possibly killing a big buck. So now we have fewer and fewer kids growing up hunting. We have less and less access to hunting ground. We have new-age deer philosophers denigrating those who enjoyed the deer drives of old because it doesn't fit their myopic and selfish view of what deer hunting SHOULD be.

If you are one of the ones who gladly gain advantage by sitting in a tree, using bait, using cover scents, using attractant scents, using trail cams, using ghillie suits, etc., you may want to re-examine your thoughts on the subject.

If "hunting" is the criteria for determining ethical deer killing, then what exactly is sitting in an elevated stand at the best time according to a trail cam, overlooking bait, wearing camo and cover scent? I guess timed ambushes are way more ethical than trying to push deer with a stick and string in hand.

It seems as if today's average deer hunter is more concerned with being able to control the most variables to gain advantage over the deer. If those of you putting drives down had a clue about their efficacy, you may change you tune. I grew up driving deer in one of the top trophy counties in the entire country. We saw many huge bucks during the year. We killed very few. My father, brother, cousin and a few friends have killed more big bucks as well, as does, sitting quietly in stands and blinds than we ever killed on drives.

Finally, I've been on quite a few deer drives while hunting with other trad guys. As others above have said, it is a slow, quiet, soft push. It can be fun and even works sometimes - most often it doesn't. I personally don't care how anyone else chooses to kill a deer. They are meat on the hoof and are a renewable resource.
Hackbow, would you mind if I gave Donald Trump your contact info? He could use some help delivering his sound thoughts. What you've laid out in your post would be hard for me to improve upon.

    If a man is against driving and is quick to spout off about higher than normal ethics, you won't change his mind. The hardest thing in this world that Ive found is to change a grown mans mind.

    But alas, that is not the topic of this thread. The topic was a query as to effective tactics for driving deer. I think you already got some great Advice Jake, slow and with meaning and knowledge of your territory and the specific deer that reside upon it. My only concern is that the fellas on my drive have the restraint to only take high percentage shots at calm deer. Yes, with the right techniques some deer that are driven will be calm and probably feeding as much as watching their backtrails. Its not close to being a  gimme and will in most instances be less effective than tree stand hunting. But still, a man should know more than one way to kill a deer or anything else for that matter. Im a predator before Im a method hunter. I like to "Hunt" things be it by running them down, ambushing them or luring them to me. I guess I haven't been "blessed" by civilization  enough that I will neglect all methods but one to be a hunter. Deer driving is just another way to enjoy the hunt for me.

      As far as ethics involved? Well, I like to exhibit and act upon my own set of ethics and will be damned if someone will tell me whats right for me or not. We still have a democracy here at the present time and Im glad that we all can still choose how we plan to live this American dream, regardless if we do deer drives or not. [/b]
:thumbsup:

Offline Roger Norris

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2015, 06:12:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I was thinking about drives today.  To me it would be intentionally pushing deer off property you have permission to hunt possibly never seeing them during or after the drive.  

I'm not for or against it, and if you have  a bunch of other places to hunt then cool beans.  

Personally I would p

refer if the neighbors all did drives and I had a  "sanctuary" to hunt!

If I was invited to drive someone else's land, I would probably jump at it.  

Let us know how you make out.
My thoughts exactly.  We don't do them on our lease.
"Good Lord....well, your new name is Sledge."
Ron LaClair upon seeing the destruction of his new lock on the east gate

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Online BAK

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2015, 08:28:00 AM »
I haven't reviewed the "fair chase" conditions but does driving game fit???
"May your blood trails be short and your drags all down hill."

Offline Tajue17

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2015, 11:06:00 AM »
I have friends who push and they have a great time it seems to bring people together and reminds me a lot of bird hunting when we used to go chase grouse around..

me personally I want nothing to do with deer drives for me and what I need mentally from my hunts it just doesn't provide that,,,there's no personal respect or sense of accomplishment which are a couple  things I really need before I can say thank you for the deer.  I really need to know I earned it and having someone scare a deer towards me just doesn't do provide that,,,,,,I would rather push for friends to help them get food but I don't want to shoot..

the last time I hunted with my father I was on my stand with a smoothbore and from his stand he decided to go for a walk and with me not knowing he tried to push some deer towards me,,,,, when he came out of the swamp in front of me and I seen what was happening was the first time he got a loud profanity filled tongue lashing from his kid and the last time we ever hunted together and where he cannot walk good enough to hunt anymore this is something I don't regret.

if someone accidently pushed me a deer and I shot it I would be pretty upset with myself and donate the deer to the first person who wanted it after I tagged it of course because well there is still a law we all need to follow (oops just a point I was trying to make   :bigsmyl:   hope its more better now ehh)

with all that being said if it was a matter of survival though I'd kill anything that walks in any Legal manner possible to feed  me or my family.
"Us vs Them"

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2015, 11:31:00 AM »
Wow, shooting a deer and not tagging it?  Around here that's called poaching, wasting game and will land you a nice fine.  If you think that kind of behaviour is justified in any way you'll not be welcome in our camp....ever.

Offline Tajue17

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2015, 12:04:00 PM »
it was just a point I was trying to make,,, your from Canada I'm  from Boston trust me I wouldn't come knocking.
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Offline Tajue17

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2015, 12:06:00 PM »
oops dbl post
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Offline highlow

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2015, 02:20:00 PM »
Calgarychef X2. Called wanton waste where I live and punishable by a hefty fine, which it should be. Wondering what your point is T17.   :confused:
Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy - Ben Franklin

Offline Tajue17

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2015, 03:49:00 PM »
because he missed my point and his whole threat about your not welcome in my camp thing was over the edge a little,,,, he likes to push deer and needed someone to attack that was against it I think he knew what I meant but its a Timmys vs DD thing.

I understand I wrote that wrong and my failed attempt at being sarcastic but I wouldn't consider a pushed deer truly my deer once I realized it was only scared towards me, I fixed the wording..
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Offline Michael Arnette

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2015, 04:14:00 PM »
Settle down guys!

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2015, 08:02:00 PM »
I don't "like" pushing deer.  I explained how deer drives aren't always a mad dash of animals.  There have probably been tons of times that deer have been pushed past you and you don't even realise it.  Maybe a coyote wanders by and the deer moves away, or a cow, or the wind changes direction and the deer meander a different direction and directly u deer your stand where you ever sooooo ethically wait above the animals sight line do y can"ethically" kill them.  

Breaking game laws ain't cool even if it's to make a point actually especially if it's to make a point.

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Deer drives
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2015, 08:08:00 PM »
For those who are interested in driving deer and have no partner here's a way.  Hang up your sweaty jacket in the breeze,then make a big circle downwind and hopefully you'll run into the deer trying to get away from the scent.

We were walking back to the truck one day after walking a very long ways looking for moose.  There was a small bull bedded down and we bumped it before we saw it.  It took off
Of course but hadn't smelled us yet and wasn't too spooked.  I very quickly circled downwind and caught him just leaving the edge of the bush.  I didn't get a shot off but if I would have been faster on the draw I would have as he was about 18 yards away.  That's an animal that was definitely pushed to the spot I saw him and I don't think anyone could call that unethical.

I agree with the fellows who are on small leases though,in wouldn't push or even stalk around on a small piece of land.  I'd get into my stand and stay there.

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